At most schools, an open coordinator position wouldn't be cause for serious contemplation. Coordinators come and go, in most circumstances. Iowa football isn't most schools, though; the program hasn't hired a new coordinator in thirteen years, and a full-on head coaching search looks to be years away. Defensive Coordinator LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
If you thought we were done with these three weeks ago, it's OK. We did, too. Since we chronicled Juan Castillo on January 9, we honestly believed we'd exhausted the obvious options. Since then, there's been murmurs about Jack Del Rio and a couple of guys on the San Francisco defensive staff, but they didn't make a ton of sense. And then, a couple of days ago, Jim Herrmann's name bursted on the scene. This one is different than those. This one makes some sense.
Herrmann has spent the last six seasons split between New York's NFL teams -- three with the Jets, three with the Giants -- as a linebackers coach. He's been generally successful there, but it's not his time in the pros that makes him a contender here. No, it's Herrmann's previous gig as a twenty-year defensive assistant with Michigan under Bo Schembechler (for whom he played linebacker in the late 70s), Gary Moeller, and Lloyd Carr that has rocketed him to the top of the rumor list. After eleven seasons as a position coach under all three coaches, Herrman became defensive coordinator when Greg Mattison (oddly enough, now the Michigan defensive coordinator again) left for Notre Dame. In his first season on the job, Michigan won the national championship, its defense conceded just 114 points in 12 games, and Herrmann won the Broyles Award as the nation's best assistant coach. In his nine-year tenure, his defenses never gave up more than 24 points per game, and were under 21 ppg eight times. I suppose that's good, but finding historical conference defensive stats is tough. As far as basic scheme goes, Herrmann gradually moved Michigan from their 3-4/5-2 of, like, forever to a 4-man front, mostly by employing a "rush linebacker" which was just a defensive end with a cool name.
I suppose this is where we should talk about Lloyd Carr's role in this process. We've previously discussed the relationship between Carr and Ferentz: Carr took notice when Iowa rolled Michigan in the Big House in 2002, Carr eventually pegged Ferentz as a logical successor when he retired only to be trumped by Mary Sue Coleman, Carr sent a quarterback recruit and a well-respected receivers coach to Iowa after Michigan hired Rodriguez. The respect between the two is clear, and has been since Ferentz came to Iowa. Furthermore, Ferentz is a Pennsylvania guy, with a deep sense of the tradition of the upper Midwestern superpowers. Yes, Penn State holds a special place for him, but Michigan's within his holy trinity. If Ferentz reached out to Carr for a recommendation or a meeting, Carr would have as good a shot as any of luring Herrmann away from the pros.
This is the part of the profile where we discuss negatives. And, oh, there are negatives. For one, Herrmann hasn't been in the college game in six years. For another, he left Michigan for an NFL position coach job after a 7-5 season. I went into the MGoStacks to look for a reason why, and came out with this gem from the days after Herrman left:
Each thing you add to a defense must have some advantage. Otherwise you're just complicating things for you and not them. Jim Herrmann's final years were miraculous, wildly complex schemes that were dead easy to read. Merely discussing it makes my molars ache. How many times did you see members of the secondary pointing at each other and re-arranging themselves moments before the snap? How many times did befuddled linebackers pick the wrong place to go? How much of Michigan's conservatism was because an aggressive Herrmann defense would inevitably bust coverages at a rate better associated with the Wildcats? (Which Wildcats? Pick one.)
Guh. There was also this ruthless post on the day his departure was announced, this sarcastic link to a Scout profile on Jim Herrmann as some sort of defensive genius, and this reaction when his name was mentioned as a potential replacement for Greg Robinson in RichRod's final season. They didn't like him at all by the end, which is typical of a coach who has been at a school for twenty years, but there were larger reasons why Herrmann and the Michigan fanbase broke up beyond his long tenure in a high-profile position. Stop when this sounds familiar:
It would be disingenuous for me to adopt Vijay's all-class attitude toward the departure of a man who caused me disproportionate misery over the years, but all told Herrmann is probably less responsible for the bunched-panties phenomenon than the man in charge....All the excitement over Ron English will evaporate right quick if Carr glares at his new defensive coordinator every time a cornerback lines up within spitting distance of a wide receiver. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. We need aggressive, clever pudding. Or something. This metaphor died.
Essentially what Brian is saying is that Jim Herrmann possessed all the parts of Norm Parker that Iowa fans found infuriating -- tops among them a staid defensive philosophy and the unique ability to subsume himself completely to his hyperconservative boss -- with an added dash of completely unnecessary complexity that left Michigan actually going more conservative on both sides of the ball in order to prevent and/or fix the big-play lapses caused by his decided schematic disadvantage, the kinds of big plays that are the bane of Kirk Ferentz's football existence. And, if you have any question whether this was just the opinion of one blogger in the infancy of blogging, I suggest you read those links.
Herrmann has the pedigree and mentality that Kirk Ferentz wants. He's likely got the endorsement of a man who Ferentz trusts and respects. His timeline matches with the interminable waiting game of the last seven weeks. But that doesn't make him the man for the job, and on further review, it's pretty clear he's not.
0 recs | 84 comments
At this point
I just want to know.
Black&Gold.Forever - January 31, 2012
Since he appears to be so good at putting points on the board, maybe he should be offensive coordinator.
Blackheartnopants - January 31, 2012 via Android app
As an Iowa and UM fan I'd be very disappointed if Herrmann is selected as the DC.
This isn’t beautifully written but I agree with the general sentiments of the author.
l
Steven Dailey - January 31, 2012
Retry the link.
http://gregdooley.com/archive06/0923HerrmannsHead.html
Steven Dailey - January 31, 2012
So we don't want him because he's like Norm?
Huh. And here I thought Norm had been one of the best DC’s in the business. But hey, I’d rather trust the opinions of a fanbase with a well documented reputation for being hypercritical and scapegoating instead of those know-nothing NFL GM’s that have employed the guy the last 6 years.
Tophawkeye - January 31, 2012
He's been a LB coach in the NFL.
Not a DC, and having just endured three years of a former NFL and college DC who was a miserable failure(Greg Robinson). I’d hardly consider being a former NFL position coach to be roaring endorsement.
Steven Dailey - January 31, 2012
There's a joke here about KF being a former NFL position coach and success
but I can’t seem to find it.
Feelin' Orney - January 31, 2012
Ummmmm....
mikjones24 - January 31, 2012
AMEN!
I’m glad someone finally had the nerve to say it! Vint should get back down to his mother’s basement and leave the journalism to the real professionals!
/slide whistle
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
You missed the day they taught reading in school, didn't you?
Patrick Vint - January 31, 2012
Reading is FUN
daMENTAL?
Eyeheartfreedumb - February 1, 2012
"Essentially what Brian is saying is that Jim Herrmann possessed all the parts of Norm Parker that Iowa fans found infuriating..."
Again, saying someone has the same alleged faults, as viewed by a hypercritical minority segment of a fanbase (by nature a rather biased source), as one of the best in the business is not exactly damning.
The only source of analysis you cite in the whole article is mgoblog, If you look at just about any coach that left any school ever, whether voluntarily or no, you’ll find sour grapes and rampant justifications as to why his leaving is a good thing. Sometimes they are true, oftentimes they are not, but the point is once again that fanbases (and fanbloggers, who often represent the most polarized segments of said fanbases) are about the most biased source you could possibly find. The analysis cited is facile and anecdotal. I have little opinion about Herrmann, but this post did little to give me one, one way or the other. 20 years at Michigan under Bo, Moeller, and Carr and then 6 years in the NFL suggests he can’t be all that bad, however.
Tophawkeye - January 31, 2012
I think you missed the point there pretty badly
He wasn’t saying Norm was terrible DC. He has in fact said exactly the opposite fairly recently. He was acknowledging that Norm had some faults (which I think any rational observer would have to admit) while also pointing out that Hermann shared many of those, while also having additional ones.
As for the MGoBlog stuff, Brian expressed frequent frustration with Hermann while he was still the coach there. It wasn’t all sour grapes after the fact. He was calling for Hermann’s head long before it actually happened, and the idea that Hermann’s defense underachieved relative to their talent level (especially against spread teams, which is increasingly worrying in the Big Ten and college football as a whole) was pretty widespread among Michigan fans at the time. Most of the ones I know were relieved to see him go.
As for the experience, much of that was as a LB coach, not a DC. I don’t think Pat is questioning his credentials as a position coach. In addition, that experience alone is not necessarily indicative of his ability to be a successful coordinator. Greg Robinson has also spent several decades in the NFL and NCAA, most of it at a higher level than Hermann. Would you be happy with him as the DC?
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
I think you bring up a good point
I think there is a large segment of the Iowa fanbase that thinks there are two distinct elements to Norm Parker:
1.) The part that infuriated Iowa fans. (BOOOOO! FOUR THREE COVER TWO)
2.) The part that was an incredibly successful defensive coordinator. (YEEEEEEAAAH GO IOWA AWESOME!)
Many people want to believe that you can separate the two when that is simply not the case. You won’t have much luck convincing anyone of this but the simple fact is that the things that many Iowa fans rued about Norm were the same things that created so many top 10 defenses nationally (or whatever the stats were).
I think this article does a pretty effective job of pointing out the reasons why Herrmann could be a very successful hire for us. He seems to have been a hell of a coordinator at Michigan. I realize that postseason awards can be incredibly subjective but they do generally point you in the direction of talented individuals.
Lastly, I realize that when you have a fanbase that widely despises a particular thing about a coach and that coach is fired, the tendency is to bring in someone with tendencies that head in the opposite direction (see, Lickliter v Fran) but Norm was not fired. Even if it would have been possible, it would have been very difficult for Barta to replace Lickliter with Tony Bennett even if it would have made sense. However, this wasn’t a firing. The program did not need nor did it want this change. Fans will be fans, but I’m happy that we have a coach who is willing to ignore their input most of the time and do what he feels is right for the program.
HawKCP - January 31, 2012
I think you can easily separate 1.) and 2.)
For Norm Parker? Probably not. He knew how to do something successfully and did it. But I don’t think one should imply that if you don’t have 1.), you can’t have 2.).
tyger1147 - February 1, 2012
How many days after the Super Bowl until this guy gets named DC?......sigh
odiE- - January 31, 2012
yuck
I think I hate this slightly less than the ridiculous Jaun Castillo rumor, but only slightly
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
I would say Phil Parker.
I’m just guessing. Some of these recruits today are talking about Phil Parker as in a bigger role.
2LastNameWideReceiver - January 31, 2012
The herrmann rumor is just a ploy by Ferentz to make Parker look like a better hire.
Enoch - January 31, 2012 via mobile
I doubt it
I’m still in the camp that if Parker were the guy he’d already have been announced.
taliesin - February 1, 2012
If he knows he's not the guy he would already be gone
therealCatnuts - February 1, 2012
Maybe not
Maybe he decided to stick around unlike Coach K. Who I still imagine having a screaming conference call with the Pelinis on his way home from the football complex after being told he wouldn’t be DC.
PackerHawk - February 1, 2012
Ferentz is a belichik clone
Therefore we will not have a defensive coordinator next year, only defensive assistants
Nature Boy - January 31, 2012
What are the odds we find out tomorrow?
MP hawkfan - January 31, 2012
I'm not sure if we find out, but I do think that Hlas will ask him about it.
The Mexican't - January 31, 2012
May as well ask the man his credit card number while he's at it.
Flakbait - January 31, 2012
"5230 2340 1233 HEY! You media guys..."
HawkeyeRecon - January 31, 2012
Ferentz doesn't use credit cards.
Straight cash, homey.
Now, the private plane thing seems more understandable, as I wonder if you can even get a commercial plane ticket without a credit card.
WaterlooChazz - January 31, 2012
You can
but it raises suspicion. The TSA backs off though when KF prooves his American cred by whipping out the autographed Polaroid of Stanzi.
Flakbait - February 1, 2012
Are you loving it or leaving it today, sir?
WaterlooChazz - February 1, 2012
I love this comment
therealCatnuts - February 1, 2012
It would seem very KF to use a normally scheduled press conference to announce it
That way he doesn’t have to spend any extra time with the media.
BoiseHawk - January 31, 2012
Oh, I thought you were talking about Hlas's press duties in Indianapolis.
I hadn’t even considered Ferentz’s recruiting press conference.
The Mexican't - January 31, 2012
Which will already be bad
what with it being the first time anyone will have had the chance to ask about Coker and McCall. And Derby.
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
The more and more I think about, this almost has to be the guy.
It’s either another college coach that they have agreed not to announce until after signing day, in which case the secrecy and tight lips that have been involved here make the Manhattan Project look like a group of gossiping women, or else it’s a pro coach who’s season is not yet finished, i.e. someone coaching in the Super Bowl.
Since I doubt Belichick will be in line for a demotion any time soon, and a hiring of Brian Ferentz (for DC, anyway) will pretty much seal the eternal doom of the Iowa football program, it pretty much HAS to be this guy unless there is another Pats or Giants assistant that everyone is missing.
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
I've been thinking along the same lines...
of the first paragraph.
BoiseHawk - January 31, 2012
Oh, and I will add that people poo-pooing the guy that coordinated
the greatest college defense that I have personally ever seen in my 20+ years of closely following college football are not exactly the kind of people who’s opinions I am going to respect on the subject.
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
Yes, but
how much of that was him and not just the inherited talent when he took over?
I agree that it is certainly a plus in his favor, but it’s a little troubling that his first defense was in his first season, and he never again came close to that mark. Yes, the 1997 defense was special. But a coach shouldn’t have one season as his sole achievement
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
er
…but it’s a little troubling his best defense was in his first season…
Otherwise it is redundant. And obvious.
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
The Dr. Tom of defensive coordinators?
SomeJerkPoster - January 31, 2012
Has Norm et al. been George Raveling? This could work well for us...
tyger1147 - February 1, 2012
That was his very first year on the job
He inherited an absolutely loaded defense from Greg Mattison, featuring and transcendent talent in Charles Woodson. If the rest of his time at Michigan had lived up to that, no one would have any issues with hiring him (nor we would be in a position to do so, since he’d have a way better job that NFL position coach).
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
good lord do I ever need a fucking edit feature
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
you and me both
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
This is like saying the only good defenses that Norm ever had
were littered with NFL talent. Technically true, but slightly besides the point.
What success has KF or Norm ever with a team that wasn’t absolutely littered with NFL talent?
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
Right, but in Norm's case they were teams that he'd been coordinating for years
Which isn’t the case with Herrman and the 97 team.
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
So there were no good Michigan Ds under Herrmann after 97?
I seem to recall them making a few major bowl games and winning a few B1G championships after that season.
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
Well this is shifting the goalposts a bit
I was responding to the idea that coaching the 97 Michigan defense was in itself proof that he was a great coordinator (so much so that apparently anyone who disagrees does not have football opinions worth respecting). To respond to your new point, they actually struggled quite a bit in bowl games towards the end of his tenure, often at least partially because his defenses performed poorly. And, as Pat noted, in his later years as coordinator there was a sense among people who followed Michigan football closely that his defenses were underachieving quite a bit.
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
Look this guy has AT LEAST as impressive a resume
As Tom Bradley. As re-tread B1G DCs go, we could do a heck of a lot worse.
Bradley was hated by PSU fans before the whole Sandusky thing broke and he became a cult hero for holding the ship together and then the classy way he left. He was criticized heavily by their fanbase for exactly the same things that Herrmann was criticized for, and indeed that Norm was FOR YEARS by our own fans.
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
Bradley was also loved by PSU fans
Because they are sooo monolithic. Then again, whether or not they refer to him as Scrap or Bradley will go a ways towards telling you what they think of his performance as a DC.
PackerHawk - February 1, 2012
I'm sensing more and more the following
- Phil Pa goes to DC/DBs
- E. Jay goes to LBs
- B. Ferentz to TEs, Assist. OC
There is no reason to wait otherwise. I mean waiting for Jim Herrmann? That’s like waiting for the sliced orange with the toothpicks at the end of the sushi dinner. It looks refreshing and all, but it’s just a fucking carved up orange, with toothpicks.
StoopsMyAss - January 31, 2012
I'm seeing this as well
Hear that Neo, that is the sound of inevitability…
BoiseHawk - January 31, 2012
Pretty sure I started this rumor
NorseHawk - January 31, 2012
I'm just your personal megaphone then
here
meus, I mean, you roar.StoopsMyAss - January 31, 2012
At this point
short of it being Belichick, I don’t think the hire is going to impress anyone. The search has just gone on too long, whomever is chosen will not be palatable to a large segment of the fanbase, not that this matters a whit to Ferentz.
HoyaGoon - January 31, 2012
I'd still be impressed with Bradley.
Adding another name to the rumor mill hasn’t really altered the logic (in my mind) of waiting to announce his hire.
tyger1147 - February 1, 2012
He's unemployed
so waiting only gives him the chance to say no. I can’t see him coming on board but if he does, that means (I would think) they hired him on the down low and then negotiated a contract and asked him to sit tight because of other hires???
StoopsMyAss - February 1, 2012
Or
maybe Bradley really is going to take a year off. Particularly because I’d guess he’ll be called to some court hearings at some point (even though it doesn’t look like he knew much or anything about Sandusky’s horrible side).
WaterlooChazz - February 1, 2012
I think his year off
is a combo of wanting to take some time off and maybe not being very excited about the openings that were left after he knew he wasn’t getting the PSU job. He’s a pretty minor figure on the sidelines in the Sandusky mess so that won’t take up very much time at all.
Flakbait - February 1, 2012
Well
They might have wanted to wait until after signing day, in order to push possible negative publicity after the date, and to avoid disappointing potential recruits who had an affinity for Parker.
taliesin - February 1, 2012
This I agree with.
Same with the analogy about sushi. I never get an orange on toothpick, but mints instead. Maybe I need a new sushi joint. But I hope the Phil Pa moniker doesn’t stick.
How much would it suck to be Steven Ferentz? Walk-on to a team where your brother and dad are both coaching. Oh, and your other brother happens to be the starting center.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 31, 2012
this is the one thing that tells me it's not happening
But, KF owns the joint so why not.
StoopsMyAss - January 31, 2012
It seems too perfect (in a Brady Bunch way) to happen.
Who knows…..but I doubt we know by this time tomorrow. If that’s the case, then it’s ridiculous to argue there is not an NFL coach coming to…..wait for it……
hawkinsandmelrose.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 31, 2012
His dad owns a dealership.
SomeJerkPoster - January 31, 2012
Eh. he's a wrestler
In wrestling, that happens all the time. Plus, I really don’t think Steve is ever going to see quality minutes. All reports from CHS are that he isn’t in the same class as the other two, who both seem to have been playing mainly because they are expert at (figuratively) stashing razor blades in their knuckles.
nhradar - February 1, 2012
At the very least,
I’d hope he could be a special teams hitter.
WaterlooChazz - February 1, 2012
Oranges? Our defense will be scurvy-free!
Blackheartnopants - January 31, 2012 via Android app
Hey buddy, I LIKE oranges.
WaterlooChazz - January 31, 2012
HOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT
Pocket
HoyaGoon - February 1, 2012
With the way this is being drawn out... does this decision perhaps seal Ferentz's legacy?
If not his legacy at least perhaps the circumstances under which he leaves as Iowa’s coach? Let’s face it, things right now are not the way fans or Ferentz would like things to be. Given the right circumstances he could coach here as long as he likes, at least another 10 years. Choosing the right guy, another guy with Norm’s ability to crank out strong, often top 15 defenses, could lead to a situation that both Ferentz and Iowa fans could be fairly comfortable with. Norm’s defenses were more likely than not to at least make Iowa competitive with the league’s big boys. Choosing the wrong guy though… where our defense is in the lower half of the Big 10 could make our traditionally weak offense REALLY struggle and potentially implode Ferentz’s tenure.
I think that is why everyone here is kind of waiting on this decision with bated breath and fingers crossed and why I check in twice a day to see if there has been an announcement even though this past season has left me less than enthusiastic.
…Please don’t fuck this up, please don’t fuck this up…
HawkeyeRecon - January 31, 2012
Yeah, well, if he wins 9 games and bowl game next year
all is forgiven. Especially if three of those 9 wins is against Nebraska, Minnesota, and Iowa State.
StoopsMyAss - January 31, 2012
Not a chance for 9 wins next year.
The defense will be a tire fire, the running game will be extremely questionable, and with Keenan Davis as the top receiving option, God help us all. The schedule is ridiculously easy, but it was this year, too.
This is clearly going to be the key decision that defines the final phase of the Ferentz era. They are either going to get their defensive house back in order and turn some of these great recruits from the last couple of classes into the next batch on the NFL assembly line as they make a push for another B1G title/BCS berth/whatever the next postseason format is going to look, or the defense descends into the same sort of permanent malaise/mediocrity quagmire that the offense has been bogged down in since 2002 and Iowa will never get above the 7-5 threshold for the rest of his agonizing tenure, which would be maybe 2 or 3 more years at most with those kinds of records.
Jon Miller actually predicted today that Ferentz will be gone one way or another 5 years from now after the youngest son is done. If he doesn’t make a great hire here, it may not be his choice how he exits.
i_love_iowa - January 31, 2012
If one thing is obvious
It’s that Ferentz is a man of his word. He signed a contract, I think he’s the kind of guy that sees it through. He’s said as much, and he doesn’t say a whole lot about the situation. Some people spin this into “he’s holding the University hostage”, but that’s because they’re nuts. Ferentz has said what he thinks, what he plans on doing, and for people like Miller to stir up another rumor to deal with for another 5 years is just a way for us to read his articles. And to be honest, it’s an easy conclusion to reach…..which makes it all the more amateur/amatuer.
It will be Ferentz’s choice. Don’t be silly.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 31, 2012
I can actually see him retiring after the youngest is through
regardless of the level of success he has over the next five years. If he does well, it only makes it easier and allows him to go out on top. But I don’t get the sense is a “lifer” like Paterno was. And he won’t need the money. I can honestly see him retiring from “big-time” football and going to coach at a nice prep school or a D-III school for a few years and just enjoying the golden years.
HoyaGoon - February 1, 2012
"Jon Miller actually predicted today that Ferentz will be gone one way or another 5 years from now after the youngest son is done."
LOL
mikjones24 - January 31, 2012
Remember when Jon Miller had a show on BTN for all of like two days?
NorseHawk - February 1, 2012
The show (Big Ten Pulse) is still on,
they have just re-staffed it with, among others, the excellence of Timmy Doyle.
WaterlooChazz - February 1, 2012
still better than Jon Miller
therealCatnuts - February 1, 2012
Well our recruiting seems to be going the way fans want.
Disclaimer: There is only one Norm Parker and I will never put anyone above him.
That being said, there are usually 10-15 teams that have top 10 defenses each year, and they aren’t always the same ones. There are coaches out there, and likely one already on staff at Iowa (our D staff has included Phil Parker for the past 13 years and our D has been pretty good, last time I checked. I wonder if Phil had anything to contribute to that?)
hawkinsandmelrose - January 31, 2012
Shaking my head.
WaterlooChazz - January 31, 2012
Sports fans are nuts though
A lot of Sooner fans think it’s time for Stoops to go, despite having the best W/L record of all FBS coaches since he was hired.
I still harbor a dream that when Ferentz leaves, Bobby will hear the sweet call of the wind though the Iowa corn and come home.
Flakbait - February 1, 2012
Yeah, I understand.
I was just pointing that quote out because it seems like many fans (at least here at BHGP) are tiring of Ferentz.
/Apologist-True-Fan’d
WaterlooChazz - February 1, 2012
BTW, you should probably edit your post for the "no 4-stars" after the New Year thing.
If you’re about having correct information and all that. Just my opinion, of course.
tyger1147 - February 1, 2012
Mas Casa...
Is reporting this is the guy according to some recruit somewhere, that said something on his Facebook page. Seems pretty solid to me, gotta be the guy.
hwknout - February 6, 2012
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