In 2007, Iowa fielded two senior halfbacks in tandem: The always-reliable Albert Young, a fifth year senior who joined the team in 2003, and the quicker, smaller Damian Sims, a fourth-year senior who was recruited in 2004. There had been a time earlier in Young's career where he looked like a future Heisman winner -- as a sophomore, he had been a Doak Walker finalist -- but injuries derailed his career. Sims had shuttled briefly between the defensive backfield and halfback positions before settling in as Young's change of pace back. Their senior season was a mess, as the offensive line went through a full rebuild for the first time in eight years, the best skill position players were all thrown off the team in August camp, and Jake Christensen descended into madness (I sort of joined him by the end).
Little did we know that, when Young and Sims graduated the following May, they would be the last Iowa tailbacks to play four or more years in nearly a decade. Since their departure, Iowa has recruited sixteen tailbacks. Of those sixteen, three remain on the squad. Before yesterday, twelve left before their four years was up, the vast majority within two. Yesterday's announcement that Marcus Coker, the Big Ten's second leading rusher and an astrophysics major to boot, had requested a release from his scholarship made him the thirteenth to jump ship.
After the jump, the full list.
Damian Sims was the last recruited Iowa halfback to make it through four years. He signed a letter of intent on National Signing Day, 2004. He is our starting point.
Shonn Greene was also a part of this class. He did not qualify and spent the year at the Milford Academy, where he was neither seen nor heard.
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: ONE
Shonn Greene was back! After his year at Milford, Greene was eligible and joined Iowa. He made his debut with 118 yards on 16 carries against Ball State in the 2005 opener, but was used only sparingly the rest of the way. As a sophomore, Greene ran 32 times for 205 yards before missing the second half of the season with an injury. His grades went in the toilet again, and by 2006 he was moving furniture and attending Kirkwood Community College, which doesn't even have a football team. We'll get back to him later.
Kalvin Bailey was the first big-shot halfback recruit to get annihilated by the Iowa program. In retrospect, it's stunning we landed him. Bailey was a four-star recruit out of Florida with offers from FSU and Miami, among others, but was also committing at the height of Kirk Ferentz's power, as part of the vaunted 2005 recruiting class. He was a beast of a halfback, coming in at 5'11" and 245 lbs. He redshirted as a freshman, missed on his grades, went to North Iowa Community College to get back on track, and eventually played at two other community colleges before returning to Tampa and working at a hospital.
Corey Robertson was more of a prototypical Iowa halfback recruit. At 6'1", 205, he wasn't ideal size and only got three stars as a result. He was, however, the Texas 4A MVP as a senior, offensive player of the year as a junior, and best in his class as a sophomore, so it's not like he fell off a turnip truck in Tiffin. He redshirted, moved to defensive back during spring practice in 2006, then failed out in spring semester. He also went to North Iowa Community College, and was never heard from again. Probably has something to do with the fact that it's Mason City, where Stephen Bloom says people go to disappear.
Dana Brown had less going for him when he got to Iowa City than the others on this list: Only two stars, an offer list that never escaped the MAC/Sun Belt, no hype at all. Brown did something his more hyped backfield-mates could not: He made it to his sophomore year. He didn't make it through, though: In October, he was dismissed for a violation of team policies. It was later discovered that he'd beaten up his girlfriend.
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: FIVE
There was only one halfback recruit in 2006: Anthony Bowman.
That's Bowman, on the left, in August 2007 in a picture that was found on his Facebook account after he'd been arrested for credit card fraud. The story writes itself.
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: SIX
Again, there was only one halfback recruit in 2007, and Jevon Pugh (Naples, FL) again wasn't here long. A three-star commit with offers from Kansas State, Maryland, and a host of other mid-level programs, Pugh played as a true freshman. That is, until he was implicated in the Cedric Everson matter, suspended indefinitely, and uncerimoniously hung out to dry by the coaching staff while the Des Moines Register all but convicted him. He quietly quit the team in January, after just one semester on campus, despite the fact that nobody had ever implicated him in anything wrong (subsequent reports indicate he'd talked to the victim the night of the Everson thing. That's it. A brief conversation).
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: SEVEN
With quite literally no scholarship halfbacks on the roster in February 2008, Iowa took all comers, signing five scholarship halfbacks and taking in a sixth. The most promising, at least initially, was JUCO transfer Nate Guillory. A scatback from Coffeyville (KS) Community College, Guillory had given verbal commitments to at least three schools in the fall of 2007 before signing on with Iowa following the Pugh suspension because opportunities were ample. He left of his own volition after about a week, probably because...
Shonn Greene was back again! The furniture moving and TV watching had worked, too, because Shonn went out and won the Doak Walker Award as a 23-year-old junior. He then gave Iowa fans chanting "ONE MORE YEAR" the most STFU look in the history of STFU looks and was never seen again, leaving early for the Draft within seconds of the end of a dominant Outback Bowl victory over South Carolina.
Iowa also added four freshmen to the mix, most notably Florida garage sale find Jeff Brinson. The video on Brinson was wonderful, mostly because he played in a Wing T offense in high school, so it was just pulling guards and Soviet-style deception. That was all we really saw of Brinson, though. Even with the dearth of halfbacks, Brinson redshirted. He rushed once for seven yards as a redshirt freshman, but never fully recovered from ankle injuries suffered in August camp. Then, before the 2009 season, he hurt his foot and never got back to the field. In the winter of 2010, Brinson transferred to Central Florida; by August 2011, he'd tore his ACL and quit football altogether. One carry, seven yards.
Jewel Hampton ended up being Greene's backup in 2008, almost by default. He was, however, extremely effective, and when Greene left early for the pros, an inordinate number of fans put their faith in Hampton to pick up where the Greene Monster had left off. So, as if on cue, Hampton tore his ACL in late August 2009 and missed the season. He then got in a bar fight over the summer and missed some further time. When he returned, he was in a three-man backfield that...well, we'll get to that later. Suffice it to say, he never regained the starting job in any meaningful way. In December 2010, after a tumultuous three seasons in Iowa City, Hampton trasferred to I-AA Southern Illinois, where he was conference newcomer of the year.
Did you know Willie Lowe was supposed to be a halfback? We didn't either, but he was! He moved to safety, got stuck behind Tyler Sash, moved back to halfback, got stuck behind Hampton and Robinson and Wegher, moved back to safety, got rhabdo, and justifiably cut his losses.
Which brings us to the saga of Adam Robinson. A walk-on initially and widely considered a beneficiary of the recruitment of his friend Jordan Bernstine, Robinson was given one of the last scholarships in the 2008 class when a last-second decommit left Iowa flush. He redshirted a year, then appeared without warning as the thunder to Brandon Wegher's flash in the wake of Hampton's injury. By 2010, Hampton was in the doghouse, Wegher was nowhere to be found, and Robinson was earning plaudits from the coaches. So, of course, it imploded almost immediately. Robinson missed some time with concussions, his grades went south (what Ferentz called "academic indigestion" in what we had unsuccessfully hoped would be the last digestive joke of his career), he was suspended twice in November, then while on suspension during Iowa's bowl preparation, was picked up with a bag of weed. He was summarily sacked soon after.
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: TWELVE
Brandon Wegher was the be-all, end-all of 2009. His legend in western Iowa football was bordering on myth, his star as bright as any Iowa high school skill position player in a generation. He shunned Nebraska and Oklahoma to be a Hawkeye, and played immediately once Hampton was finished. It was as good as could be expected from an Iowa back. He then abruptly quit the team in August 2010, after approximately one half of one practice, for personal reasons. Eventually, it was announced he was not returning. He tried to walk on at Oklahoma, left after two days, enrolled at Iowa Western Community College in Council Bluffs, somehow failed out, and was arrested last year for public intox, eluding arrest, and looking like Jeremy Piven had he been in Fast Times at Ridgemont High:
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: THIRTEEN
Marcus Coker is now gone. Why, we don't really know, but this Iowa City Press-Citizen report might have something to do with it. More details to come.
TOTAL DEFECTIONS SINCE DAMIAN SIMS: FOURTEEN
That's fourteen defections by twelve players in seven classes of recruits, and that list doesn't even include Class of 2011 defector Mika'il McCall or Rodney Coe, who failed to qualify. Coker's class still includes DeAndre Johnson; should he leave, that would make it seventeen consecutive defections from fifteen consecutive players. Of the players listed, Willie Lowe lasted longer than any other, and he didn't even play halfback. As for those that actually stayed at the position, none even made it past the January following their third season (Robinson, who was dismissed from the team as a redshirt sophomore in the week after Iowa's bowl game, served the longest term). This is no longer funny. This is a plague, and it has no rhyme or reason beyond its indiscriminate effect on running backs.
5 recs | 552 comments
There was also Josh Brown
Though he was brought in as an “ATH” he was a running back.
fightforiowa - January 11, 2012
Man, I'm sure this wasn't fun to write. Thanks, PV.
After getting caught up on last night’s thread, as a fan I feel left in a catch-22: do I blame KF and the staff, or the individuals who left? I’m sure it’s a mix of both (and in some cases, no blame to be given at all, just one of those homesick/bad fit things), but it’s gone full circle beyond absurd and laughable.
I’m getting to the point where I think there has to be something more than just goddam AIRBHG. If you take out the kids who appear to be “bad seeds”, there’s still enough defections to cause concern as to why a RB can’t or doesn’t want to stay here more than 2 years.
Ill Jukes - January 11, 2012
Leadership
You’ll never hang onto all the talent, but in any organization if there is an morale problem.
I believe this all comes down to management. Working conditions, whether it’s the physical environment, scheduling, evaluation, compensation, management style, etc. all add up to create the morale. And morale is huge in keeping the talent. College football has factors that business doesn’t of course, but human beings are human beings, so I believe the analogy is a strong one.
At this point you have to say that something other than bad luck is at play and guys are leaving for a reason. What is management doing to fix the problem? If Kirk’s reputation for stubborness is true, is the answer: “Nothing, they canget with the program or get the hell out”. Because that is not going to work.
A large portion of the fanbase seems to be fed up with pissing away their devotion on 7 win seasons. If they continue, I believe it will end badly for this staff and I, for one, do not want KF’s time in IC to end badly. He’s done a lot of good for this program and seems to be a fine human being to boot, he deserves better. But so do the fans who are paying the bills.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
I have the same dilemma.
with an additional wrinkle: I agree that Kirk is a stubborn guy who is “my way or the highway,” but I imagine that so are the great coaches around the country (notably, one Nick Saban). I was watching the Insight Bowl interviews, and Bob Stoops said some great stuff about removing scholarships: “You’re here to get an education and playfootball. If you have a problem with that, I want to your scholarship to someone who doesn’t.” Is the Saban, Stoops, Pelini, and Kelley (ND) stubbornness allowed when you can pull talent as effectively as they can? What makes Iowa a place where the coach can’t say my way or the highway?
That said, I know that Kirk and Co. have a lot to do with this. I just wish I knew how it were different from other places.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
Removing Scholarships
is a fairly deep issue that hinges on the question of are they student-athletes or student-ATHLETES. Then there’s the whole thing about how even though we know NCAAF compass is pointing toward the biggest piles of money, do we want to just surrender the high ground and admit it or resist in the name of all those players who will never go pro and deserve a realistic chance to take advantage of the “student” part of their titles.
The NCAA itself says it takes about 43 hours a week during the season to be succesful on the football field. So imagine busting your ass at a really hard full time job and trying to go to school, too.
Something needs to change and I don’t think that something is making it easier to yank scholarships.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
I'm a day later
But I have to say how much I agree
BoiseHawk - January 11, 2012 via mobile
I'm not dismissing your theory outright, but I do have a serious question . . .
If it is KF an his coaches and bad mangement and morale, why are the defections limited primarily to one position?
Are offensive linemen and defensive backs immune to bad morale and bad management?
Torbee - January 11, 2012
An excellent question
I wish I knew the answer. SMA has a post below that talks about how Iowa’s running and blocking schemes are more demanding on an RB than they are at other places. Let’s assume for a moment that that is the root of this prblem.
Why haven’t the coaches changed their approach a bit? Do they feel that whatever is gained with this scheme offsets the harm done by constantly losing players? Especially when experience with a complicated subject is a huge factor in being good at it.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
Good point.
I want answers so damn badly.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
A question about Hampton
didn’t he tear his ACL a second time right after coming back from that suspension for the bar fight?
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Yes
In the horrible game at Arizona.
Bama Hawkeye - January 11, 2012
You can always tell a Milford man
whohawk - January 11, 2012
AD auto-rec engaged.
Ill Jukes - January 11, 2012
Beat me to it auto-rec engaged
CyHawk - January 11, 2012
In Your Defense
That descent into madness was a fairly reasonable response to the 2007 season. The sad thing is that a lot of it can be cut n’ pasted into any response written for the first half of 2008 or all of 2010 & 2011.
Such is life.
I went looking for a site that listed attrition stats for FBS teams, but only found one that talked about three SEC teams, Auburn, Alabama and Florida (I think). The rates were in the high 20’s with the exception of Auburn which was around 50%. That was the year before Cam Newton got hired. Wish I had the link now.
So the normal rate is probably around 25% to 30% but Iowa has been around 50% lately and there doesn’t appear to be an end in site. So WTF?
After 2010, Jacobi wrote a piece that ended with a line about how he wished Ferentz would express that he was just as disappointed in the results as the rest of us. I have a similar feeling about the attrition. It would at least be nice if the good captain would at least acknowledge it and say something about how it has affected the team and what sort of steps they are taking to fix the problem.
I don’t expect anything of the sort of course, which leads to a feeling, probably not true, that he really doesn’t care much.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
Well said
Just let us know you care, KF.
Ill Jukes - January 11, 2012
Fart.
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
Chuckle
Twin Cities Hawk - January 11, 2012
Ferentz? Care?
Snort.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
/purses lips
//writes in notebook
sailorjerry - January 11, 2012
what the f…
Time for the ffffing spread where we don’t need RBs
waterboy31321 - January 11, 2012
“This is no longer funny. This is a plague, and it has no rhyme or reason beyond its indiscriminate effect on running backs.”
If only we’d had the same leadership during this period that could be held responsible for a string of poor decisions, poor recruiting, and a litany of controversy resulting from said decisions.
Oh wait. We do.
Nyghtewynd - January 11, 2012
Can we get a CityBoyz, Inc.-style video retrospective of the fallen RBs?
I would pay you in kind remarks and a rec.
“And I’ll take with me the memorieeeeeees…”
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
This is an excellent idea, actually.
I’ll get to work on it.
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
Sorry Iowa...
Man, this was maybe the most depressing article I’ve ever read over here… and that’s saying something. My Iowa friends have tried to convince me that this RB thing was bad, but seeing it all laid out is worse than bad. Good luck on the recruiting trail. Greene’s success still is a nice trump card in the back pocket, and Coker was no slouch either. Eventually this too will pass, right? (Just to be safe, Nebraska plans on doing exorcisms after playing Iowa just to make sure this doesn’t spread)
KennardHusker - January 11, 2012
Love the reverse backhanded compliment in the first sentence.
Now bugger off.
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
don't talk to my writers like that
He’s a Nebraska man, of course he finds this site depressing.
Graham Filler - January 11, 2012
He's not your pal, guy.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
He's not your guy, buddy.
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
He's not your buddy, chief
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
He's not your chief, mister.
Bama Hawkeye - January 11, 2012
He's not your mister, friend.
The Bacon Explosion - January 11, 2012
He's not your mister, mister.
Mister Mister?
SO TAKE THESE BROKEN WINGS AND LEARN TO FLY AGAIN
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
Necessary'd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWyeVfuolT4
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Play "Kyrie!"
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Hey, you know that Mista Mista lady? I think I just killed her.
Give Eddie a Beer - January 11, 2012
Ooh. That hit me in a great way.
I miss when Adam Sandler was funny.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
YOU'RE DEPRESSING.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
Don’t listen to these guys. We know you’re a decent, rational (!) Nebraska dude. You are right though – have your players take a cattle dip after playing Iowa. You don’t want AIRBHG.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
Yay for rational!
I almost feel like I should respond to this compliment with some irrational Nebraska speak (WOOOO FIVENATLCHAMPSHIPSBOYZ!!!! [yup, people still screaming about that have devolved to incoherent speech]).
And yes, extra precautions are being made. Nebraska players will be stopping by each Native American reservation between IC and Lincoln and performing some AIRBHG Appeasement Dances after next years game.
KennardHusker - January 11, 2012
"And that's saying something"
Ouch…
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
I really didn't mean that as backhanded as it sounded
I really enjoy BHGP depressing stories because it really is the snarkiest depressing on the interwebs. It’s just that, well, it’s been a rough year or so for the Hawkeyes. Look at it this way, at least you’re not Indiana.
KennardHusker - January 11, 2012
And
you’re not South Carolina.
PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk - January 11, 2012
What the hell does South Carolina have to do with Indiana OR Iowa Running Backs?
Other than Shonn running riot over them in the Outback Bowl?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Nothing.
But it has a lot to do with Nebraska. Via the Tangerine Bowl.
nhradar - January 11, 2012
They beat Nebraska in the bowl game this year. This KennardHusker guy
is backhandedly complimenting.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Come on, it was a joke
That was supposed to be a swipe at Indiana, not at Iowa. Anyhow, I’m pretty sure the appropriate comeback was “Hey, at least we’re all in the AAU…wait a minute…” That way, all I can say is, “Well, well… AGRICULTURE!!!”
KennardHusker - January 12, 2012
Just remember this haughty attitude of ours
when you are husking all of OUR corn
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
GREATEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL FAN IN THE WORLD ALERT
BentNotBroken - January 11, 2012
At least we're not Indiana indeed! Amen!
This isn’t the worst place to be depressed, after all. I’m looking at you, Detroit and/or Youngstown.
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
The ludicrous amount of attrition at one position is inexcusable,
and to me strongly implies there’s a lot more going on here than just “kids making bad decisions” or a “few bad apples” or whatever. This points to a larger, systemic, institutional issue, i.e., a problem with Iowa Football itself. And this is just the running backs – we aren’t even discussing the high levels of attrition across all positions.
Fortunately we all know this can’t possibly be anything The Good Captain Mr. Kirk Ferentz should or will have to answer for, because He’s the Right Man For the Job, and therefore by default anything bad that happens is not His responsibility (or by extension, His staff’s) because He’s a nice man and Does Things The Right Way so I guess it’s all on the players after all because they didn’t really want to be here and didn’t buy in and wanted more sizzle and who are we to question Him anyway?
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Yuck, all that coachspeak made me a little sick to my stomach.
Ill Jukes - January 11, 2012
THIS
to infinity and beyond
BamaGatorHawk - January 11, 2012
How many players, exactly, are not responsible for this through behavior, grades, or opting to transfer?
Very few.
You can blame the coaching staff for plenty of issues, but I don’t think this is one of those issues.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
I don't know
it’s looking more and more like McCall was entirely KF’s doing
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
And not because McCall threw a fit and put said fit on twitter?
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Does it make you think...
Call me crazy,
1. McCall bitches about playing time, and gets suspended
2. Coker gets to steppin’
3. The McCall situation has not gone any farther than “he INTENDS to transfer”
What if he doesn’t?
RandomHero - January 11, 2012
That was kind of my hope. But I don't think he is signed up to take classes.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
I like to look on the bright side,
and maybe hope for the better.
RandomHero - January 11, 2012
IDK the thing is that it seems like a bad situation that he is all pissy at Ferentz
Might make things weird.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
If that's what it is
than the punishment is far in excess of the crime. I really don’t want to think of Ferentz as a real-life Javert, but that might be the case here.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
You mean McCall being suspended?
And then transferring?
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Yes
IF McCall was suspended for venting/ranting on Facebook/Twitter and nothing else, then the punishment was far in excess of the crime. It’s not the suspension, it was Ferentz’s repeated public statements that McCall’s return was conditional, that it wasn’t guaranteed (contrast that to a DUI or the like where a player is suspended for 1-2 games, but his return to the team is assured). Given that Ferentz strung along McCall for most of December that way, it shouldn’t come as a huge shock that he, McCall, makes up his mind to transfer long before Ferentz finally gets around to stating he expects/assumes McCall would be back with the team.
IF this was the reason for the suspension — and not a larger, more significant reason — then Ferentz’s handling of it was textbook piss-poor personnel management.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
I can agree with that
and at least you took the time to put in the qualifiers. Unfortunately, many others have essentially concluded that it was nothing more than the Facebook post that solidified his fate. As much as we rag on Kirk’s disdain for social media, I HAVE to think that there was more to it. That said, the punishment may have been excessive, who knows. But as has also been said, I don’t know that we should be privy to that information any more than anyone else. Perhaps it was a DJK-type situation where he was repeatedly in the doghouse for god knows what. But if it truly was the FB thing, yes, that was atrociously handled.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Not really
Short of their being legal or significant behavioral issues on the part of McCall — and the former is pure supposition at this point, the latter unlikely given his rush to overcome injury — than there is nothing that could justify the way McCall was treated publicly by the staff.
Do I think we know the full story in re McCall? Absolutely not. But the part we do know isn’t particularly flattering of the way Ferentz handles personnel issues.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
So if McCall was breaking team rules, or something else that is a violation
he should not be punished by Ferentz?
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
He shouldn't have to wonder
whether he’d ever be welcomed back. But no, you’re right, it’s totally legit to sentence someone to life imprisonment for stealing a loaf of bread.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Was he sentenced to life imprisonment? I don't recall Ferentz
suspending him for 4 years, or kicking him off the team. You don’t know anything of the conversations between the two, you don’t know why he was suspended in the first place, and you don’t know his requirements to end his suspension.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Le Mis’d
HoyaGoon – adding culture to BHGP, nice.
The Bacon Explosion - January 11, 2012
HoyaGoon
Is still living in a world where everyone is entitled to know every little detail about everything. He broke a rule, he’s gone. Good. This sucks for our team, but the alternative is being investigated by the NCAA, which (something tells me) would please HoyaGoon greatly.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Yep
that’s EXACTLY what I believe. It’s like you’re peering into my own mind and writing down my thoughts. Impressive.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
I'm just playing percentages and reading trends.
And in your case, it’s a lock.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
You may need to go take a nap.
Sleep it off.
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
THIS AIN'T INTRAMURALS!
THIS IS BIG TWELVE MINDREADING!
/DanHawkinsandmelrose
Patrick Vint - January 12, 2012
ISWYDT
BStylin Hawkye - January 12, 2012
What!!!
Our not knowing the details goes both ways. We don’t know what rule he broke. So we don’t actually konw whether Ferentz’ response is appropriate. That’s fine.
But there’s plenty of precedent for rule breakers returning the team (especially if last name is Ferentz, or if they’re “hard-working” “eager” guys.
But given that we all exist in an appropriate veil of ignorance regarding specifics of these violations, all we can do is watch for patterns. Here’s the pattern: A LOT MORE PLAYERS ARE LEAVING THAN IS EVEN REMOTELY NORMAL. We are several standards of deviation away from “bad luck” or “chance”. This is a systems thing.
Saying “we don’t and shouldn’t know specifics, and so have to assume the system is working when we lose 15 RBs in 5 years” is beyond asinine. If I had an employee who was consistently late for work, even if they always had a great excuse, I would talk to them about the worrisome pattern. It’s time for someone to talk to Ferentz.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Your deductive skills need work.
A lot of work.
Adam Jacobi - January 11, 2012
See, hawkinsandmelrose, even the national sports media thinks you're wrong.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
That's
THE NATIONAL SPORTS MEDIA
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
The National Sports Media?
That’s a bit of a stretch.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
No. It's a joke. And a funny one.
Don’t let your fervor for your point blind you to good humor. Hell, even Hitler had an enjoyable moustache (NOT equating anybody to Hitler!)
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Shit. reductio ad hitlerum as been entered into the equation.
EVERYBODY PANIC!
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
YOUR A HITLER
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
YOU HAVE AN OPINION OF WHICH HILTER WAS AWARE
Q.E.D. YOU ARE HITLER
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
YOUR A STRETCH
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Its fun, to have a new troll... I guess.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Not YOU BoC
But this dude/ette is obviously trying to troll the dogshit out of us.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Are you calling me a troll?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Derp.
I’m not sure I see the ambiguity in that statement
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
Well that's an easy accusation to make
for a troll.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
You've been here three weeks. Get your shit strait (bullshit)
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 11, 2012
I'm a dude and an Iowa grad
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Wow.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Enlighten me Jacobi
Coker took a test for another student. You get kicked out of ANY school for that, I have friends who work in U of I Admissions. You don’t get back in after that.
So overlook it, allow him to play, and when the NCAA finds out…..blame Ferentz again?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Or were you replying to The Final Gun?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
He was replying to you.
FYI – if you click on the “up” button below a comment, it will tell you what comment is being replied to. That can genuinely be helpful in long comment strings.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Where are you getting your news? Rivals?
No one was reported that Coker cheated in any way, nor was he kicked out of school.
He withdrew from his classes, for which his registration was filed and apparently accepted. That’s not an expulsion, that’s a transfer.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
I'm getting my news from inside the University
So if everyone knows about it, then that makes it the reason. And if there are few who know about it, that makes it false?
Got it.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
regardless of whether I agree/disagree with your side
Please stay away from unfounded or un-nameable “inside sources”.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Fair enough.
Sounds fishy I admit. But there are two options for why he left: he either cheated or beat up a girl.
Believe one of the them.
Ferentz doesn’t kick players off the team because they happen to be the best damn running back in the Big Ten.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Oh, now he's being accused of beating up girls?
This is fucking ludicrous.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
Look at my posts on the Gone Baby Gone Thread
And you’ll see that I think there is no way he could have been in town to do this, which is why there were no charges filed.
He was in Minneaplis 13 hours after the alleged incident. That means that accounting for team meeting on Friday afternoon to leave for Minneapolis, travel to Minneapolis, team dinner Friday night, curfew, wake-up, team breakfast on Saturday morning, leaving for game, warm-up, etc…..not possible. Not to mention the team meetings, film sessions, etc. that goes on.
I don’t beleive for one second that Marcus Coker ever touched another person in a violent way other than on the field.
He was suspended for violating the student-athlete code of conduct, it wasn’t grades otherwise it would have been for being academically ineligible. Those are facts. Those facts lead me to believe that he did cheat or helped cheat, and that will get you kicked out of any school. And allowing players to play in spite of this will get you investigated by the NCAA more times than not. A painful lesson, but better than having the NCAA up your ass.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Why would you need to rely on his suspension terms to reach your conclusion?
Didn’t you just say that you were getting your information from “inside the University”?
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
Actually the incident allegedly occured at like 1:29 am
on October 28th or 29th(not sure but it was the Friday). So it would have been early Friday morning that it occured. Not saying it happened because I don’t believe it did but yeah.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Right
I replied below that I made a mistake.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
I see that now, whoops.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Being investigated for assault and beating up a girl are two very different things,
especially when the cops decided not to press charges.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
You guys are seriously out to lunch.
My point is HE DID ONE OF THE TWO!!!
HE DID NOT, as in no charges filed, didn’t do it, didn’t do it, did not do it, DID NOT ASSAULT A GIRL…..HE DID NOT DO IT. I KNOW THAT.
THEREFORE: HE DID SOMETHING ELSE! HE CHEATED IN SCHOOL!!!! THAT’S WHAT HE DID! HE DID NOT ASSAULT A GIRL! HE WAS IN MINNEAPOLIS 13 HOURS LATER PLAYING IN A GAME!!!! IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Goddamn my head hurts.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Maybe your head wouldn't hurt so much if you'd stop shouting.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Thanks I'll try that
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Notably absent: facts.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
FACT
He was in Minneapolis playing in one of his best games ever 13 hours after the alleged assault took place. Make a timeline leading up to kick-off and there is no way he could be in Iowa City. That’s likely why there was no charge, he was gone and had the big ten network audience who can support his alibi.
The fact is that some people are so wrapped up in Ferentz is the Problem that they ignore the obvious.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Whoa man, calm down
First off, that’s not a fact, that’s supposition based on a timeline issue with the complaint. But more importantly, those are not the only two possibilities and it’s not crazy to think there are others, especially with the fluid history of issues like this.
I know you’ve been called some names here by others, some unfair in my opinion, but really you just need to calm down. It’s just a sports blog populated by people that might have opinions different from yours. Go to sleep angry if you must that we lost Coker, but not because somebody had a different opinion about what Coker did.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
I wouldn't be so worked up
If everyone would just admit I’m right.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
which would be less of a problem if you hadn't spent the last day yelling about a timeline that is completely factually inaccurate
rupertj - January 11, 2012
So......
By being inaccurate, it actually emboldens my claims that Coker was rightfully suspended and released from the team as much as I hate to say that.
Coker did one of two things to get suspended, and in my opinion that’s the only route the University (or Ferentz) could go. Otherwise, you’re inviting problems down the road.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Finally
some comedy from h&m
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
There's nothing funny about children who can't sew.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Took me a second, Boc.
Speaking of child labor, how come Filipinos aren’t from the Filippines?
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
the incident report says 1:30 a.m on 10/28
how is that 12 hours from 2:30 pm on 10/29?
rupertj - January 11, 2012
My bad.
But I’ll give Marcus the benefit of the doubt.
That sucks, it really shoots my argument to shit and proves I’m trying to create an alibi for someone I want to see kicked of the team.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Assuming something does not make it a fact.
I get where you are going, and that’s fine. But you should not couch it as “this definitively happened.” you created a disjunctive without exploring all options, and then proceeded to eliminate one of the options.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
As someone up above said...
…I don’t understand why you have to make this timeline and deduce things when you have an actual inside source. Did they inside source say it was cheating or didn’t it?
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
To be fair
we don’t really know why Ferentz kicks people off of the team, as many people have argued should be the case.
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
Simpsons already did it
/meta South Park joke that may be found funny only by myself
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Wrong Victor Hugo story
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
You guys are getting outside of my circle of social media knowledge
Damn, you guys all make me feel like I’m old and should be shopping for Depends at Costco after work.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
That's a half truth.
Old people love to go to Costco — but not to shop. They’re there for the weekend food samples and the strawberry sundaes.
// loves me some Costco pizza.
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
YES!!! And the CostCo rotisserie chicken for $5
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
Do they sell guitars and running tights at Costco?
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
yes and yes
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Yep
And what I can’t figure out is why all the freaking really old people are @ costco EVERY TIME I GO THERE. Regardless of time of day or day of the week….
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Easy answer:
because that is where things are cheap.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Maybe you are succumbing
to the herd-like behavior of your own kind.
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
This is a funny comment
But I think that you may also be disparaging Costco in this comment and for that I must fight you.
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
I can't believe
that I live 2 hours away from my nearest Costco, and now one is opening in Coralville. It is so painful to drive to South Carolina to get my vanilla, cheese, glasses, laundry detergent, vodka, etc.
nhradar - January 12, 2012
No, I'm 100% certain that's Les Mis
I saw it on Broadway! Yay me!
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Nope, Jean Valjean is prisoner 24601.
/ went to Miss Saigon over Les Mis on Broadway
// have regretted my decision to this day
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
My bad
I thought Prisoner 24601 was the Man in the Iron Mask. But I was wrong. Besides, as hkobb notes, that was Dumas anyway
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Valjean was 24601
But is that the Man in the Iron Mask? THAT’S ALEXANDRE DUMAS!
/collapses into nerdcoma
/foreveralone.jpg
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
I've been looking everywhere and I can't find Les Miles in this picture
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Les miles?
In France, wouldn’t they use les kilométrer?
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Merde. Ma americain montre.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
FWIW
MSU was recruiting him and I think he was even committed at one point, and Dantonio yanked his offer. Perhaps it was a character issue.
Seer - January 11, 2012
I could see it, since Dantonio is such a Character guy!!!!!!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
It's funny.
I bet a lot of other schools’ fans make the same jokes about Ferentz.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Except don't we punish our players? In fact too strictly according to some around here
and drive them away with Ferentz’s dictator-like regime?
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Oh, I agree,
and just because they say it doesn’t mean any of it is warranted or based in reality.
But then again, isn’t “its not warranted or based in reality” what most all fans of schools whose coaches get that type of criticism/jokes would say too?
Anyway, just one of those things, I guess.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Holy Fuck!
Dantonio didn’t take McCall?
Wow!
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
that's funny
but his offer wasn’t yanked from what iread. he just changed his mind. like guys are doing right now
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
Feb 1 can't come fast enough
Though I have faith in LeVar Woods to retain Jaleel Johnson.
nhradar - January 11, 2012
The coaches offer spots to the players
So either we have one of the unluckiest staffs in college football when it comes to judging kids and their “stick with it” attitude, or they just aren’t very good at it.
At a certain point, bad luck just stops being an excuse.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
AIRBHG you magnificent bastard!
djwoody - January 11, 2012
Maybe we should
read his book?
Grixxly - January 11, 2012
Wow.
I’m a Nittany Lion living in Hawk country and knew there were some running back issues on the team but had no idea it went back that far. Spoke with a big Hawk fan at work this morning and his disgust told the whole story. Got to get some leaders in that locker room to straighten these guys out.
Swiggs - January 11, 2012
The apparent lack of locker room leadership
and vocal leaders in general is a separate issue unto itself, and is one that also needs to be addressed.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
I beleive the difference at PSU
it that its the DC’s is usually around to maintain discipline in the locker room
Kluginator - January 11, 2012
I just don't find any of the PSU jokes funny...
I guess the subject is just too perverse for me to find any humor in it at all and all of the attempts at humor just fall flat with me
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
Thank you for saying that.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
+1
I thought the PSU jokes were limited to ESPN’s troll heavy message boards.
Swiggs - January 11, 2012
Yeah, sorry Klug
In general you are one of funniest guys on this site even if it is usually the more perverse jokes but this one just isn’t going to work for me. it’s not a too soon issue either, time isn’t going to make this one go away.
/steps off high horse
//hopes Kluginator keeps bringing the batshit crazy everywhere else.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Also not funny
is the fact that we’re apparently considering hiring a guy who helped cover up that mess for 20 years.
nerdhawk - January 11, 2012
There is zero evidence of that
You’re reaching.
isHawkeye - January 11, 2012
Exactly
Out of the tons and tons of people that have been accused of ignoring evidence or actively helping to cover his tracks, Bradley has been accused of absolutely nothing. Note the word accused – he hasn’t even been accused when pretty much everyone else under the sun at PSU has been. To me, that is saying something.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
By your name, I would have assumed you were actually smart.
You’re an imposter!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
You guys are right
He was only there for 30 years, I doubt he knew why was going on.
nerdhawk - January 11, 2012 via mobile
You guys are right
He was only there for 30 years, I doubt he knew what was going on.
nerdhawk - January 11, 2012 via mobile
The logical questions to follow then, would be:
A) Why has he not been implicated by anyone in the extensive, thorough investigation?
B) Why would the university even entertain the thought of allowing him to stay on in ANY capacity before ultimately going in a different direction?
C) Why would Larry Johnson Sr be retained, considering he was around for some Sandusky years as well?
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Cool story, bro
Did you take an evidence class in law school or do you just watch Law & Order a lot?
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
While I have been against the hire of Bradley for obvious reasons
I think I am wrong, and the reasons for objection are not so obvious. Jumping to conclusions? GUILTY AS CHARGED.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Having a legit argument against Bradley is fine
Automatically not wanting him due to the Sandusky case is ignoring facts.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
I said I was wrong
Jumped to conclusions. Guilty as charged.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Eh . . . there's a reason Penn State doesn't want him around.
Big, public institutions shouldn’t knowingly hire public figures who are even tangentially related to such a disaster. It sucks for him, especially is if he is really and truly innocent. But we’re not debating his innocence or guilt, we’re deciding whether we want him as the public face of the university. Just because nothing is proven (or even insinuated) doesn’t mean this isn’t a seriously potential PR issue.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Somebody photoshop a tigerhawk on this kid's shirt
And I think you have the UI’s take on PR:
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
How many stories have you heard about a "respectable" guy
being proven guilty of some heinous crime and his neighbors of decades never even had a clue and are completely baffled? it’s really not uncommon.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
Yep
that pretty much means we’re all guilty of something. Until it is proven that we aren’t. Which can only occur when you’re dead. Wonderful standard you’ve got there.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Do you ever agree with anyone?
Or are you just the Troll who Objects to Everything?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Seriously man, you need to go back to your message board.
I’m getting sick of this shit. It’s like OTE, with a small handful of commenters acting the fool, picking fights, and saying the same shit over and over and over until the thread is pretty well jacked.
Y’all should know who you are. Could you just go hibernate until August, or at least implement a “leave it better than you found it” policy when posting? We’ll all have a lot more fun that way.
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
No
It means that just because we know or work with someone for a long time doesn’t mean that we know everything about them. I would think that was obvious since I was replying to a comment about how Bradley had been at PSU for 30 years so he must know something, but I guess it needed to be explicitly stated.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
I think you misread this post, as I did at first.
CS over here is right; there’s no concrete reason to believe Bradley knew anything about Sandusky’s actions.
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
Yeah, like the sweet little old lady here in Sacramento who murdered old guys, buried 'em in her backyard
And took their SS checks. I’ve been past the notorious house many times too…
Scary. Not many female serial murderers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_Puente
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Two seemingly unrelated points worth mulling over:
I think it is worth asking why the running back position, under Ferentz, has been the locus of so much this evaporation phenomenon.
It might be because of factors unrelated to individual frailty or judgment but of environment (e.g., system).
Running back in the Ferentz offensive system occupies a special level of commitment and pressure, it seems. Being an Iowa running back is not merely taking the rock and running. Iowa running backs have nuanced blocking responsibilities on top of having to learn how to run in a zone blocking scheme. It is widely believed that “coaching” players to adapt to a zone blocking scheme is more time consuming, more challenging and most importantly, very important to achieving success. Running backs need to be coached up to understand the approach and use above average vision to see the lanes and hit them decisively. It is not an approach that comes naturally to some players and many running backs who have played in both styles at the NFL level have groused about zone running. That we lose our running backs so early in their career seems tacitly related to the time and commitment needed to understand and perhaps even enjoy running in the Iowa scheme.
To further the point, in a more basic man blocking scheme a running back can (pardon the pun) hit the ground running using their basic instincts. Whereas man blocking asks running to just run, zone blocking requires that running backs show patience and knowledge and occasionally the discipline to go against instinct. In a nutshell an Iowa running back has to do much more that just show up and let their natural talents do the talking. Natural talent must meet up with intelligence.
Recruiting the right kind of kid who can handle this is important and it might not be a good fit for everyone…and I mean that both ways. I’m sure the coaching staff has written off players they think just cannot adapt and perhaps some players have written themselves out of the Iowa program out of frustration with the requirements to play running back here.
I realize this seems like a stretch to link Coker’s transfer request to zone blocking vs. man blocking. And I don’t mean to oversimplify the much larger issue of attrition. But, I think this plays a part when looking big picture at this issue. Bottom line, players don’t transfer/leave for a single reason…in most cases. There are, I believe, often a host of reasons, some more prominent than others of course, that collectively make staying here seem impossible.
My theory on Coker, therefore, is as follows:
I don’t think Coker is leaving because of the issue in October with the alleged assault. I take at face value Iowa’s release saying he was absolved of that complaint. I think Coker might have had an academic dishonesty issue or something along those lines and I think he appealed it and lost—which would not be uncommon.
Universities do not like to overturn issues like that because it is might be saying that a respected faculty member who might have brought this to light, and who might have tenure, is irresponsible. In most schools these appeals are done at the dean level, not through peers (other students) almost ensuring it will be upheld. It could be as simple as Coker not properly attributing a quote in a paper leading to a plagiarism charge, that would trigger the suspension under the very precise and tight student conduct rules.
But, stay with me, now. A first offense on academic dishonesty alone should not in and of itself be enough to send him packing. Mistakes happen in college, and in a vacuum you would think he serves his suspension and moves on. Frustrated perhaps but not worth moving heaven and earth to leave.
Although if it was academic fraud it might get more complicated…it could have negatively affected his grade point average which might have put him on academic probation for the spring, further complicating matters (football players take light credit load during the season and thus one bad grade can kill your GPA and he’s early in his academic career so any poor grades seem more debilitation than it would for a junior). Still, not enough in and of itself to send him packing.
BUT….when you combine the October issue, add in what many have feared on this site—-KF’s running him into the ground (remember that A. Robinson was physically and thus emotionally exhausted after his final season at Iowa and his mother believed his concussion and that exhaustion led to him behaving against type, and I think there is some there, there), and add in Coker’s mother not really wanting him miles away at Iowa in the first place, toss in too perhaps some Rhabdo fallout (the other Baltimore kid was seriously affected by Rhabdo and this might have upset Coker for all we know as he might be tight with that kid) and then, as a final straw, his belief that he was implicated in something he did not do (per his facebook post) or was overblown.
You add all that up and that could be the recipe for a departure to more simple and quiet pastures. Apparently he is considering a small college as an interim move. I think the kid is not thinking clearly and I don’t think ONE thing have such an effect.
Sorry for the long post…
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Also
In addition to this, science courses (especially in the first couple years) are heavily dependent on 2 exams to give an overall final grade. If Coker had the Academic dishonesty issue on one of the exams, there goes probably 40% of his final grade – making a D or F extremely likely. A grade like that in one class combined with a light course load means academic ineligibility.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
Coker was a Physics Major
If I remember correctly, Intro Physics had 3 midterms and a final. Or 2 midterms and a final. Either way, there were at least 3 tests.
Case in point, it was more than 2, but failing on one was still enough to screw you over.
Bungs - January 11, 2012
well reasoned and stated
thanks SMA
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
I did not include this in the post as it was long enough
but KF might need to take special look at the kinds of kids that tend to play RB, the kind of kids he is recruiting and the kind of demands that are placed on them at Iowa and ask himself this simple question:
- Should they be treated differently?
I fear KF is a treat everyone the same, kind of guy. That is a problematic approach because the kids that want your attention feel neglected and the kids that want to be left alone feel smothered. Treat each to his needs, I say.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
I think that everything we know about KF
would lead us to draw the conclusion that he is a “treat them all the same” type of guy. I would be very interested to see an article or something from former players about how he actually is within the program. He might go out of his way to help “troubled” players or he might not. I am uncomfortable with drawing a lot of conclusions (no matter how reasonable they may be) from these situations because we see somewhere between 0 and 0 percent of his interactions with these players other than gameday (which doesn’t teach you a lot). I think this is an issue that needs to be investigated by Mr. Bloodpunch because he is one of the few if not the only people that has access to the necessary information to pass judgement.
All that being said, this is the internet and we are going to speculate some on what we see and hear. I think your above posts were well reasoned and presented as speculation on what might be going on. I appreciate this, keep up the good work.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
That would be the NFL approach and I could see you being right (everyone the same)
but at a school that rarely owns a stockpile of talent that approach is risky, if not humanistically bereft. It always comes back to the same thing with Ferentz, regardless of subject, regardless of issue, regardless of year, and it is this. The dude is as bureaucratic and reliant on rigorous, almost to a religious extreme, systematic approach as any coach I follow or read about.
He also has not a single guy left on staff who will ever stand up to him.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
One quick question
when we talk about “treating them all the same” are we referring to making sure they all abide by the same rules or actually the treatment of them being the same (coaching style, encouragement techniques, etc..) I am in favor of the first version but not the second.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
We're generalizing but yeah, as you stated it
common rules is only fair, but that is but a small part of coaching. Motivating, etc. needs to be individualized.
No matter what many people say about individualization, the main reason people resist offering it is that it requires a lot of time and ability to do it correctly. It is MUCH easier to just offer up a one size fits all.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
re : Time and ability
I coach High School basketball and I can say with confidence that individualizing treatment to maximize effort of team members is really freaking hard. That is no excuse not to do it but learning which kid needs a pat on the back, which one needs to be yelled at, and which one needs to be pulled aside for a quiet talking to is really tough. Beyond that it is really difficult to do all three of these things in the course of a practice without kids wondering why so and so never gets yelled at or why this kid seems to only get positive enforcement. I suppose being very skilled at this is what earns a guy the big fat paycheck though.
As always, speculating on Kirks abilities here but it seems possible that we need to do a better job in the dept.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
It is hard, you're right. There are coaches that when most of the kids leave that program they feel as if
they had a real, strong, meaningful relationship with that coach yet we know that not every player has the same degree of contact with the coach. It is the ability to also create a perception of connection.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Additionally
and this is partially maybe just my idea of it, but it seems to me that’s what the position coaches are for. They have, undoubtedly, more interaction with those kids than the head guy does. As such, they are going to (or should have) a much better idea of each kid’s personality, whereas there is no way in hell Ferentz can possibly know the intricacies of 100+ college athletes.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Two things:
First, how many coaches DO employ an assistant that will “stand up” to them?
Secondly, it is a large University. The whole thing/place is reliant on bureaucratic and systematic approaches.
And exactly what special treatments do you think RBs should get? I have read that they sometimes hold the RBs out of practices to prevent injury or to heal up from it. What else would you have them do?
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
I guess that was three things.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
I think Brady Hoke has two assistants that do that
I think Hayden Fry was the MASTER of having a staff of self-made men who could run the team at a moments notice.
Two, research universities are bureaucratic, excessively so. Which is why many parents send their kids to colleges. But, some universities have localized, by college, the way they run things and in fact create a less bureaucratized school in the process. The football program is what, 125 guys? I’ve taught classes with more students than that. I saw these students twice a week for 2 hours. That is a hard environment to give them individualized attention, I had no teaching assistants (asst. coaches if you will). Kirk gets them for (ideally) four years, knows where they live, their grades, has met their parents, and on and on. I expect him to treat each kid uniquely. Mostly via how he communicates with them.
Three, some players need excessive massaging of the ego and some hate that. Some need additional time to learn things, some learn quickly, some need to be relieved of certain rules here and there for special reasons, etc. I can’t be more specific than that but KF often hides behind the whole bureaucracy thing. It’s not appealing.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Should we not expect
a person who is part of the team to make some sacrifices to be on that team?
Like living in the dorm your first year (or two, or however many that Iowa football requires of their players)?
Iowa Football: Join up, follow the rules, be worshipped by thousands, and maybe go to the NFL. Doesn’t seem too bad.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Your notions, I am afriad, are antiquated.
today’s youth don’t relate much to what you just said. Some do, most don’t.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Most people also think the sun revolves around the earth
Simply allowing a flawed ideology to continue can be a disservice in itself.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
But ideologies don't exist in a vacuum.
the reason young people are more self-centered or hyper individualistic than previous generations can be explained by advancements in technology, advertising culture, parenting culture, and on and on.
So, KF can fight the good fight and lose players like a revolving door all he wants. Good luck with that too.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
So we shouldn't try to change that mindset?
Nah, your right.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
You can't do much to change the mindset
if your approach drives them away before they even have a chance to learn the lesson
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Explain who was driven away and in what specific ways
they were driven away?
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Come on, this isn't a court of law.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Nope it isn't, but he is making irrational accusations
Assuming that every player that transfers is driven away by Ferentz is ludicrous. I would just like a specific example of someone that left because Ferentz drove them away.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
I never said that
at all. But it is a legitimate question. If you seek to overturn a me-first attitude in players, don’t you at least have to adopt an approach that nurtures them and makes them receptive of your attempts to change them?
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
You said the approach drives them away before they can learn.
We don’t even know the situation. You are just assuming players are leaving because the staff is no receptive of their attitudes. Maybe they are leaving for completely unrelated reasons. Do you not find it odd that not a single transfer calls out Ferentz and co. after they have a new team for all the apparent unjust punishment they receive?
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
This is incorrect
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
Well I haven't really heard much from
former players bashing Ferentz, sorry if I am wrong, I would love to see it.
clay-born to party - January 12, 2012
I think Ferentz is trying to find players who find the IOWA WAY appealing
but when he recruits certain guys who are not perfectly suited to it, there might be problems.
Look, this what the whole Lickliter issue. Systems coach trying to push square pegs into round holes. When it works its genius and when it doesn’t its….this.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Then the other question that has to be asked is
what has changed in the last ~8-9 years? I don’t know exactly what our attrition rate has been for other positions (other than the last 3-4 years have been awful), but I don’t understand why using what is likely the same approach is suddenly pushing kids away. I realize you tried to explain some of this in another post, and perhaps there is quite a bit to it. But I just don’t understand how the same staff that thrived so much early is suddenly driving so many away, if that’s what’s happening.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
I work with a lot of young people and can decisively say
that a LOT has changed with regard to their personalities in the last 8-9 years.
If Kirk is trying to reach these kids the same way he did ten years ago, then he’s at least ten years out of date, simple as that. Can you think of one successful institution, organization, or business targeting young people that uses the same approach they did ten years ago? Of course not.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Exactly.
And for that reason alone, can Iowa fans PLEASE stop referencing Bob Sanders or any other player from almost a decade ago as an example of a success story or whatever?
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
But I can still talk about Bob Sanders in other ways, right
Cuz I gotta be honest, I like talking about Bobby. Bring him back, Chargers!
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Oh well yeah, of course.
I just think it might be time for a new be-all, end-all example of the Kirk Ferentz Way And How It Can Work For You.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Pat Angerer, Adrian Clayborn
I could name a ton.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Angerer, yes
Clayborn was a 4-star DE recruit so that doesn’t fit the storyline we’re looking for
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Perfecter.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
I would consider the Kirk Ferentz way
to stay on the right track, work hard, go to class, and not get into trouble. It doesn’t matter your stars out of high school, seeing the high number of 4 and 5 star athletes that don’t make the pros.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
The players have changed over the past decade
facebook was not even around in 2001. It launched in 2004. It has totally changed the way the current generation communicates. Just look at how much of an issue it is for coaches now.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Does that change the fact that it is Kirk Ferentz's way?
All I am saying is that his way is to work hard, go to class, and not get into trouble. If you truly truly care about your sport and will do anything to make it to the Pros, figure it out.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
yeah, Kirk is getting his way
guys are leaving, and this thread suggests that people might think his way is perhaps contributing to it. Although, ironically, I think Kirk is frustrated by the loss of Coker (although, not McCall’s loss. McCall is much to much of a homeboy for Kirk I imagine).
Kirk doesn’t help himself by eschewing transparency either. This is the fifth time in a year and change this site has been on fire with rampant speculation that seems to have been avoidable.
A friend of mine was in rural Iowa having a beer and the bartender, who lives for Iowa football and goes to one low cost OOC home game each season as the highlight of his year told him he’s getting tired of Kirk’s act.
I hope Kirk realizes these 7 win season are not going to be nearly enough to fortress him from his “fuck you” attitude he carries into these press conferences and the seemingly cavalier attitude he has about players who evaporate.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
7-win seasons
Fair or not, Iowa fans have come to see those as “rebuilding years.”
I was complaining to a Twitter friend about football fatigue earlier today. All this drama mediocrity? Sign me up!
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Less than 7 firmly puts you in the lower half of the Big Ten
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
Less than 7 is not acceptable in Iowa City any more.
Not even in a down year.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
But it is acceptable in Waterloo
sorry, couldn’t resist
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
Did the bartender
cite the “fuck you” attitude as the reason he’s “tiring of his act.”
And, how invested, really, is that guy in Iowa Football. I’m not saying it isn’t nice to entertain all your fans, but I’m also not sure we need the University and the football staff to make important decisions based on what “that one bartender from Garnavillo who goes to one game a year” thinks.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
I can confidently say that I know every bartender in Garnavillo personally,
and you, WaterlooChazz, are no every bartender in Garnavillo.
Kidding aside, why not take Stoops at his word that the due is really, really, really interested in Iowa football.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Maybe the guy is.
And my comment was not meant to cast aspersions on Garnavillo. It was just the first name of a town that popped into my head that hasn’t been mentioned much around here lately.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
The point Chad is that
KF has a problem when guys who are football nuts and love Iowa look at KF and say, you’re pissing all over my enjoyment.
In the end, as a state employee, he works for that bartender in Garnavillo so he needs to do a much better job connecting with him.
The big picture is this, Kirk used to connect well enough and of late does not. That is almost always, in Shakespeare, the beginning of the end.
StoopsMyAss - January 12, 2012
I understood your point,
but I wouldn’t say that that guy’s enjoyment is the priority here.
I think there are issues with Iowa Football that could use improvement. But I don’t think things are as bad as you, or others, or the bartender, are portraying them as.
Also, I think we should save the “beginning of the end” stuff for a year when we miss a bowl or we go worse than .500.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
Well, my dad is at the same place
as the bartender.
My dad is almost always dressed with some bit of Iowa gear. He watches every game and his weekend is ruined if they lose. He is basically unapproachable for a few days after a loss.
He told me recently that he wouldn’t be upset to see Ferentz leave. The brand of football is not fun and the guy’s public persona is tired.
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
This is the point. Iowa is not Ohio State
winning is not everything. I think Chad misses this point entirely. To him, Ferentz bought lifetime immunity in the early part of last decade.
StoopsMyAss - January 12, 2012
Not lifetime immunity.
But enough immunity to the point where I won’t call for his firing when a couple (more) kids transfer, or when we drop a game or two that we shouldn’t.
And Ly: Nobody enjoys losing. Nobody enjoys losing after turtling up near the end of the first half. But how did your Dad like that 09 Orange Bowl, or the 2010 beatdowns of PSU and MSU? Or the wins against Pitt and Michigan this year? Is KF an offensive mastermind who will entertain us, even if we lose 56 to 49? No. But he and the Hawkeye program are not devoid of enjoyment or positives. And to me, anyone that thinks so is not truly acting like a Hawk fan. They are being Hawk Pessimists.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
One man's pessimist
is another man’s realist. But Chazz, you’re an idealist.
StoopsMyAss - January 12, 2012
I know your position on 'true' fandom
To me, this
is becoming less and less true. Over the last half decade the hawks have played bad to mediocre football more often than not.
I am not sure that I can agree with your position here, when you frequently insist that the program owes little to nothing to the fanbase and yet you demand a sort of unending loyalty on the fan’s behalf in return. If a coach doesn’t need to explain himself to me, then I am under no obligation, as an Iowa fan, to support that man. I don’t put blind faith in hardly anyone, outside of Rambler that is.
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
This place would be so much more civil
if we had won our bowl game
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
Chazz, Catnuts
bring it in for a hug
Lycurgus - January 12, 2012
When you're constantly drawing the circle
of “true fans” closer and closer, eventually there will be no one left.
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
Facebook? Sooooo 2007!
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
clayborn got in trouble
whether justified or not
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
Perfect.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Meh.
Bob Sanders was a great player at Iowa who went on to huge success in the NFL.
It’s not like people are citing Merton Hanks as a symbol of Hawkeye excellence.
/I love or loved Merton Hanks, Go Hawks and Niners.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
They should.
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
I miss the 2002 season
We were all so innocent back then with our “BOBB-Y SAN-DERS! clap-clap-clapclapclap” chants.
Captain n Diet Coker - January 11, 2012
But what about Randy Duncan?
HE WAS KICK ASS BACK IN THE DAY
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Didn't Greg Garmon cite Bob Sanders' success and continued love at Iowa
as a reason he verbaled?
BentNotBroken - January 11, 2012
I'm citing it as a reason
I still get up every morning.
/I’m only half-kidding. People always say that one of the keys to life is appreciating the little things. I’d say that each Bob Sanders highlight qualifies as such.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
He did
& part of it was that Bob wasn’t super recent yet he’s still a big deal back home.
HawkeyeGirleye - January 11, 2012
At least a minor reason, yes.
Bob Sanders’ legacy should, and will, continue to be a tremendous recruiting tool. As will Dallas Clark’s and Shonn Greene’s. Iowa needs to ride those horses all the way to the glue factory.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
Yep.
Particularly because 2 of those 3 guys could still make Pro Bowls in the future.
It would be a little like Michigan acting like Charles Woodson wasn’t a Wolverine.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
yep
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
Rec, exactly
I think that is why he was drooling all over the MAC allstars.
whohawk - January 11, 2012
Or around their asshole
At least that’s what my Dad would tell me when I got uppity with him.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Assholes are like opinions: everyone's got one, and they all stink.
/tyger’s crotchety old black coach from high school
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
I think it would have been cool to have that coach.
I had some pretty good ones, but most were white and not too many of them were truly ornery.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
he was a bad coach, so no... it wasn't cool
nice guy though, and he liked me. Caring is creepy, but ever since I heard what Ted Ginn, Sr has done for his students and coaches all around the country consider it part of their job, I get pissed at my coach over and over. We were bad my senior year, and I was the only legitimate Div. 1 football talent (I only say that because I did actually make two different DI teams), and yet the only guy he helped with recruiting was the biggest knucklehead on the team that he kicked off more than once. He personally knew Nebraska coaches and never once got them on my trail.
One should not have regrets, but to this day, I know I could have made the Hawkeyes as a walk-on, at least, (graduated H.S. in ‘99) and at least been part of the teams in 2002-2003. c’est la vie.
/soapbox
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
I don't mean to pry into your personal life too much,
but which two D-1 programs were you a part of?
I’m asking in admiration, here.
If my memory serves, I think you said that injuries curtailed your career, right?
Also, are you still in China, and how is that going?
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
I went to the Air Force Academy out of high school.
They went 12-1 my senior (losing to TCU by a 1 yd miss on a FG attempt), still only made the Aloha Bowl (but sent me an xmas card w/ sand from a beach in it), but anyway. I only went there for football and the “free” credits. You can leave up through your sophomore year with no obligation to the military w/ about 70 transferable credits. (They don’t take AP credits,and in the end that’s just what I should have done if I wanted free credits.)
But I didn’t like it so I went to Nebraska (I know, I know, but it was in-state tuition, and they still had a 100% open walk-on program.) Any full-time student can tryout by having height/weight taken with a 10/40 yard speeds, vertical and 20 yd lateral shuttle. The only guy who had a higher score than me (it’s a combination of weight and scores: if two guys have the same times and jumps, the heavier guy gets more points), was supposed to be a greyshirt but weird shit happened – he actually won the Gold Medal in the Bobsled in 2010.
And no, it wasn’t injuries unless you count emotional stupidity as an injury. (this is why i get bothered when people essentially blame the kids and try to paint them as bad apples). I was someone who, despite workiing his ass off although my life, still needed emotional support. Being an uninvited walk-on (not a greyshirt), I never expected it nor begrudge the coaches at either program for not giving it. That doesnt mean, however, that being wanted and encouraging words wouldn’t have made a huge difference, and it baffles me that people actually think that’s “coddling” or babying kids.
Let me put it this way: I worked my ass off to be able to win a state championship in wrestling when I hadn’t wrestled from 7th grade through halfway through my junior year. You would have been amazed at how hard I worked. One of my selling points to a Div II school that essentially gave me a full-ride was that i had a relentless motor. I’ll also say, that as a 6’2", 247 lb 19 year old MLB, after Winter conditioning, I ran a 4.87 40, a 4.13 shuttle and had a 31.5" vertical. The 13th best time at the NFL combine for a 40 for LB’s was 4.75. My vertical would have been an inch less than the 13th best at the combine. My 20 yd shuttle would have been 5th best (at the AFA, they said I was quicker than all of their linebackers).
I do say all of this not to brag, but only to relate how good kids take bad paths, aand it does not mean they are bad people, by any stretch. Now, I am not angry at the AFA or UNL coaches, as i chose to go there without them asking me too, I feel they had no real obligation to me. But if I would have gone to South Dakota State or NW Mo. State (the Div II schools that recruited me hardest) and left Homaha, I would have definitely expected they provide me with all of the support I needed. A my-way-or-the-highway approach would have never worked with me either. I was just too independent (my father’s doing) and could see things from too many different angles to ever accept there was only one way to accomplish the same goal. And like I said, for me that doesn’t mean being lazy or shirking responsibility or being a dick.
But anyway, I’m on a total tangent and loop. This just brought up some memories. But when people want to absolve the coaches of any and all responsibility in these situations and put it all on the players, it just really bothers me, and this is why. Even if a coach tells a recruit, “we expect you to work hard, keep your head down, and work as a team,” it doesn’t mean that said recruit doesn’t still need to be treated differently.
If Ferentz et al. don’t want to treat them differently, then they either need to tell the recruits that straight up (maybe they do, maybe they don’t) or they need to be better at evaluating who those kids are and not offering them scholarships to Iowa.
tyger1147 - January 12, 2012
I agree with the whole
“verbal encouragement” thing.
I think it would be good for Iowa coaches to show interest in the players, and chat with them from time to time.
Beyond that, I’m a little uncertain what else can and should be done.
One question I’ve always wondered about (maybe you know the answer, maybe not, but if anyone else does, feel free to join in this discussion) is: is it legal with the NCAA for coaches to have occasional (once a month) outings with a meal for the players. They could all go to a park/campground, or go to a movie, or some type of event that would build team unity (hopefully). I know I’ve heard of NCAA basketball coaches having their players over to the house for barbecues or pizza or the wife cooked something for them.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
This is an excellent post
I love to hear somebody’s background that helps explain their perspective and opinions
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
It sucks terribly that this post came so late in this thread.
The Final Gun - January 12, 2012
I green'd it to do my best to make sure it gets any last reads.
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 12, 2012
Fellow D1 athlete on here? Represent!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Sorry to hear that
I was very lucky to have a good band director in high school for what I loved… not the same thing as sports but the principle is similar.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
I used that in another post, maybe in a reply to you.
Did not mean to steal it, and read the above reply after I responded. My apologies for plagerism.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
hah,no worries.just sawit
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
I so agree with this.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Dan Gable was the master at individualized coaching.
Yelling at one guy who responds to yelling, but in front of a guy who’s ego can’t handle it, so that they both get the message. Stuff like that.
Maybe he could teach a course or something.
The Naked Bootleg - January 11, 2012
If making strong personalized connections is a skill...
maybe Kirk doesn’t have that skill, or maybe its a limited skill.
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
I don't think, to be fair, he promises that either.
so we could say he is an example of truth in advertising. But, as we all know, he doesn’t personally recruit every player either.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
This is what I think Kirk pretty much promises everyone who comes to Iowa to play
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Thank you sir may I have another?!
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Pretty much. If you get beat on the ass enough you get used to it...
Or as the former seal Richard Marchinko puts it, one of his first rules of Spec War/Leadership is this – “I’ll treat everyone of you just the same – like shit.”
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
I don't think Ferentz treats them like shit
I think he treats them like professionals even as freshmen. The guys that get with the program (shut-up, work hard, put in their time) thrive (Fiedorowicz). Those that don’t, don’t (McCall).
Thats not to say I agree with it.
The system creates great stories (Sanders, Angerer) because those guys were forced to become self-sufficient; however, many players will struggle and leave.
whohawk - January 11, 2012
The Polish Hat was in the doghouse for a while
because he wasn’t practicing hard (by his own admission). Now he’s getting solid playing time because he’s practicing hard.
ClaybornSmash - January 11, 2012
both are examples of ego
whohawk - January 11, 2012
and what you said is exactly what I mean
whohawk - January 11, 2012
Exactly
I’m reminded of when my brother played at Iowa Central for 2 years. Twait is, by all accounts, very intense, and very strict. But my brother got along great with him and still talks to him every once in a while (4 years later). However, I remember when I would mention my brother was playing there to someone else who had, and the response was usually something along the lines of “Twait’s a dick.” Interestingly, the guys who said that usually didn’t play much…
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Neither do I
If you’ve read any of Marchinko’s silly fiction or his actual management strategy stuff that he gives on motivational seminars as a retired SEAL, his point is real leaders don’t ask anyone do any job that they won’t do themselves – including the shitty ones, and that no one – INCLUDING the leader of the organization – should expect special treatment in accomplishing the mission.
In this case, I think what Kirk has always said is his program is about working hard, keeping your mouth shut, and doing the best you can to accomplish the mission, which is winning football games.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Dan Gable=God
That is all.
Nickhawk08 - January 11, 2012
Assuming there is no such thing as coincidence or bad luck or AIHRBG....
to what do we attribute this chorus line of failure? Was there a coaching change on or around 2005-2006 to explain this? Does Iowa set the thuggery bar too low for RB recruits? Is Chigozie Ejiasi not doing his job? Is there something about the Iowa City/UI community that turns good running backs bad?
Kluginator - January 11, 2012
Is someone going to report a rundown of the next man(men) in for 2012?
Kluginator - January 11, 2012
I'm sure it will be in the ATP posts
but those don’t start until summer i don’t think
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Right
We’ll fire it up after spring ball, when the transfers and position changes settle down.
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
Looks like RB could be either really early or really late for that series
really early because we are not going to know any clearer until the first game or really late because we really know nothing about what is coming.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
At this point
There’s really no drop dead date for when these things are going to stop happening.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
Canzeri, Bullock, Johnson, Garmon
That’s the group now. Signing day is in less than a month and they’re still recruiting multiple guys at RB. From Rivals:
- Barkley Hill (ISU commit that some believe is wavering with Iowa turning up the pressure)
- Akeel Lynch (BC commit, opened it up, good friends with Iowa commit Tevaun Smith, likely down to BC, Iowa, and Oklahoma)
- Albert Reid (DC guy, former UWV commit, said to be making his choice at the end of the week between Iowa, Vandy, and Maryland)
- Marcus Horne – no offer yet. Looks like mostly MAC offers.
- Tevin Smith – official visit set up, no offer yet. Looks like his best offer right now is South Carolina.
Caring is creepy!
Nickhawk08 - January 11, 2012
Marcus Horne FTW
he is clearly the RBotF .. mostly MAC offers. WANT
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Trading Orne for Horne?
Upgrade.
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
Andre Dawson, too.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
Oh yeah, him too
God, I already forgot that he walked on. And that was like 4 days ago.
Nickhawk08 - January 11, 2012
Hmm, a walk-on RB from CRWash?
Are we sure it’s not Paki in disguise?
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Dawson was a pretty well regarded recruit
I think he just had grade issues coming out of high school, which is why he wound up at UNI and then a JuCo.
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
As I remember it he was one of the top RB recruits during his senior year, but got hurt toward the end of the year.
Our RB situation was a hot mess as always and he chose UNI (though grades may have been a factor, I don’t remember hearing that).
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
As I recall it
and I freely admit my memory on this issue is a bit spotty, that during his senior year, Dawson had a lot of interest in Iowa but that it was largely unreciprocated by staff. We already had Coker and Johnson on board, and Hampton and ARob were still on the team (Wegher was MIA) so we were clearly set for the future!
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
This is what I remember hearing as well.
I think even the news stations had a story on him about waiting for the offer.
BStylin Hawkye - January 12, 2012
I could have sworn he had an early offer
but it was speculated that it was revoked at some point, hence ending up at UNI.
SomeJerkPoster - January 12, 2012
I love the fact that one of our best players leaves the team
right after the second best player at his position leaves the team, and the head coach is “not available for comment”.
Nice leadership, Captain.
Ratface McDougal - January 11, 2012
He's on the recruiting trail.
/rhabdo
(I agree completely. Rome’s burning, and Nero continues to fiddle away down in San Antonio.)
Patrick Vint - January 11, 2012
that just gave me the image of senor day ferentz
playing the fiddle along the riverside in san antonio. so thanks for that.
sailorjerry - January 11, 2012
fuck it, i've got the time
sailorjerry - January 11, 2012
So he should not attend the conference where Norm Parker is recognized?
So he should not interview new coaches? He should stop recruiting?
The fact that some of the authors of posts think Ferentz is blindsided by this is appalling. If Ferentz is at the Coach’s Convention, how/when did he meet with Coker to release him from his scholarship?
Ferentz and Barta knew long ago. If you use the analogy of Rome is Burning, well Rome was already Burnt and Nero knew it before you did and now you’re mad that Ferentz isn’t here. Or you’re mad that he can keep a secret and goes about keeping players coming in and getting a coaching staff assembled, which likely includes talking to Lester Erb about his job.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Yeah this too
He’s got more important things to worry about and giving the media a few worthless soundbites is not going to bring Marcus Coker back.
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
Do you honestly think that the only thing that could possibly be accomplished by the head of the program addressing the media
is that Marcus Coker might come back? Come on.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
What exactly would him giving a generic statement to the media accomplish then?
How is giving a quote going to fix this issue?
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
I really think you're perfectly representing the attitude that the football program has towards PR,
but it boggles my mind that anybody could feel that way. Communication is important, even if it doesn’t directly result in more yards on the field or more money in the bank. Ferentz can either help to shape the narrative or he can be the victim of it. Leaders shape the narrative. For starters, if I was a halfback looking at Iowa (or a fan contemplating shilling out $1200 for season tickets to watch 3 home losses next year), it would make me feel a lot better about Iowa if the head of the program expressed even a modicum of awareness and concern about what’s going on right now:
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Why not just talk to those recruits directly?
That seems much more effective than going through the newspaper. There are a lot of things wrong here, KF not rushing to make a boring generic statement (which is likely about all he can make) to the newspaper is way the hell down on the list and is not a sign that he doesn’t care or isn’t doing other stuff to mitigate the damage.
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
Reading a statement that someone else writes for you to a few members of the media in the hallway of a conference takes five minutes tops.
You don’t have to choose between leveling with recruits and influencing the public narrative. You can and should do both.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
I have to agree here
Everybody likes or dislikes certain parts of their job better or worse. I guess I’m still willing to let KF be terrible at media and relationships with the fanbase, but I can see why other coaches that are better at it are more well-loved and why Iowans get frustrated that KF is not.
(hoping that run-on sentence made some sort of sense)
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
I really don’t think an obviously prepared statement that ultimately says nothing is going to dramatically shift the public narrative.
I’m not saying he couldn’t have done it, I’m saying it’s not nearly a big enough deal to get worked up about
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
You'd be surprised at the effect direct acknowledgement of the head of an institution can has on influencing the narrative.
It’s the same reason presidents visit disaster zones and war zones, even thought such visits don’t really accomplish much directly. It’s important for leaders to be involved. It’s equally important for leaders to make it seem like they’re involved.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
It sounds like KF wasn't wild about any of this
being a reason to end Coker’s career for more than a game (and maybe he wasn’t wild about even that).
I really don’t think we need a statement that will just be over-analyzed by Hlas et al to show that KF is “involved.”
I realize that these bad times tend to bring out trolls or whatever you want to call them, to the message boards and comments sections. But let’s give a little credit to the average Hawk fan, that they probably won’t immediately assume that Ferentz doesn’t give two shits just because he has a schedule to keep right now.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Just curious.
Do you ever tire of constructing straw man arguments that foot to … absolutely nothing? Beating one’s way through an open door is tedious to the observer. Who said “Ferentz doesn’t give two shits just because he has a schedule to keep right now.” Besides you, I mean.
I_am_Querulous_Yellow - January 11, 2012
Commentors here are saying
that KF really needs to issue a mea culpa press release.
I’m sorry my exaggeration is/was tiring to you. I’m sure there are things about you that tire me, but thanks for jumping into this thread just to point them out about me.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Easy killer.
If you look up above you can see who was saying that.
Chazz’s quote was a paraphrase of what Ratface McDougal said (the comment that started this section of the thread).
Also, there is a big fucking picture of Nero Ferentz fiddling while Iowa “Rome” City burns.
If you don’t give a shit about what was written before you, then don’t jump peoples’ shit.
In other words, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, then STFU.
Eyeheartfreedumb - January 11, 2012
Not to spoil the point...
But there is quite a bit of evidence that Nero showed great leadership during the Great Fire of 66 AD. The whole “fiddling” thing may just be negative propaganda.
Oh … this means I’m saying Kirk hasn’t shown leadership. DAMMIT!
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Yeah, I think KF is more of a Romulus Augustus
Character.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
My understanding is that Nero started the fire.
He needed to clear some land for his bigger and better palace. If the Romans were anything they were builders.
So, along those lines… this is really all part of KF’s master plan to built a bigger and better team.
Stay thirsty, my friends. - January 11, 2012
It is generally believed
that this isn’t true and was instead propaganda written at the time, or shortly thereafter, to justify the subsequent “removal” of Nero from office.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
The Roman impeachment process
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
It was quick and decisive, at least
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
“I can’t comment on the specifics, but it’s unfortunate and we’re going to do our best to move on”
There, just pretend he said that.
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
Even money that this will be what KF says (eventually), verbatim
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 11, 2012
Yep. Perfecto.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
and we wish marcus well in his future endeavors.
sailorjerry - January 11, 2012
Again guys
When will you realize that these decisions are made long, long before we know about them. Stop feeling so entitled to know everything. They knew he wasn’t coming back, look at the recruiting: Running back, running back, running back. Dawson, Garmon, Lynch, Reid. They knew he was gone, so they went out to get more. OVER getting Defensive Linemen!
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Shorter version of every one of your posts
“SHUT UP AND HOW DARE YOU ASK QUESTIONS!”
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
There are a whole bunch of things you can take issue with here
Kirk not giving a meaningless statement is not one of them
NorseHawk - January 11, 2012
Shorter yet
Stop being naive.
Is that better?
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Interesting to read the old posts from BHGP and it's previous incarnations
and see the dearth of comments.
If this is something where the Administration simply wouldn’t allow him to return then I say we BURN IT DOWN, FIRE SALLY MASON! THE FOOTBALL TEAM IS MORE IMPORTANT! GAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! (I’m only partially kidding)
Morehouse tweeted something last night about this possibly being a rash decision on most parts, and since I agree with everything Morehouse says (sheepish of me, I know) it makes a lot of sense.
The Nihilist - January 11, 2012
Who here doesn't agree that UI running backs were misused last year?
a 19 or 20 year old shouldn’t carry the ball 300+ times. And don’t you think the back ups know that? I’m sure McCall took as a smack in the face when he was back but didn’t sniff the field. I get the sense that Kirk has not ever taken a kid with a few problems and put his arm around him to talk about it. The CEO coach who doesn’t care if kids are having a tough time. He’s happy to sell himself as an NFL guy but you can’t treat these kids like adult pro athletes.
rosko - January 11, 2012
Every time I hear a running back is leaving
Bungs - January 11, 2012
Aaaand
green
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Aww, Bungs!
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
That's
North Iowa AREA Community College thank you very much.
#doesntreallymatter
TripleD - January 11, 2012 via Android app
People disappear in MC
Because it’s so nice they never want to leave! LULZ
Ill Jukes - January 11, 2012
Also, potholes
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
I was gonna pick nits on that one as well
but then I thought.. you know what.. who cares.
But in all seriousness, you better show NIACC some respect.. Marshall Yanda might be watching.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Doesn't matter anymore,
Football is long gone here. They’re dropping soccer too. Man, NIACC is dropping sports like AIRBHG is snappin ACLs.
TripleD - January 11, 2012 via Android app
AACLHG focuses on Purdue.
AIRBHG has a variety of techniques
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
Yeah, I think that Mason City
as a community is struggling. I’m sure that has an impact on NIACC’s ability to field teams.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Definitely,
That and not being able to have more than 25% foreign students make up a roster will screw with numbers too..
TripleD - January 11, 2012 via Android app
25% of your roster be foreign students*
TripleD - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Just you wait
Soon, the hospital will finish their grand plan to pave over the middle of the town! Parking lots as far as the eyes can see!
chitownhawkeye - January 11, 2012
I'm so pissed about that.
You’d think they conceive a parking garage plan, but I guess that’d make some sense.
TripleD - January 11, 2012 via Android app
They haven't done it yet
they’re not going to do it. I just enjoy the irony that the hospital is basically acting as a physical cancer in the middle of town
chitownhawkeye - January 11, 2012
But if they ever decide to sell any of that property,
then they can take credit for treating or possibly curing that cancer.
/I’ve only been to or through Mason City like three times, and I have never been impressed. Someday, maybe I’ll take the time to see some high school sports there, and maybe I’ll get a better idea of that town. I probably should have been there to see Oliver or Horner, but I was a high school student at the time, who wasn’t exactly adventurous enough to take road trips to other towns that didn’t involve a game with my own high school.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
There are some nice features
And a lot of cranky bastards.
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
New York to NIACC feels like a hundred miles
(sorry.)
Adam Jacobi - January 11, 2012
I wonder how many people will get that joke
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Fountains of Wayne reference?
telepathetic - January 11, 2012
So:
Academics – 5
Injuries – 2
The Law – 2
Very short-timers – 1
NFL – 1
Pugh – 1 (this is fucked up)
Wegher – 1 (how do you categorize this?)
Coker – 1 (who knows?)
Of the 14 defections, 35% were grades, 13% injuries, 13% legal issues. The attrition is very much fucked up. 9 of these 14 departures were not coach’s running players off. What’s the common thread? Is it, as Stoops suggests, related to the demands of the RB position here? I’m upset about the Robinson treatment from the outside looking in (although, academics, and fucking MSU game, why was he still in?); Wegher self-elected to do other stuff; McCall is not even included here. The guys calling for a review of a systemic problem ought to take in the totality of the numbers. You can make guys go to class, but you can’t make them pass. You can’t keep guys from getting hurt, although you don’t have to abuse them with too many (or too few) carries. And you can’t make them not perpetuate credit card fraud or beat up their girlfriends.
This is not good. If anyone is suggesting it’s simple (it’s Kirk’s fault, it’s the players fault), it’s not.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
You're right -
it’s definitely not a simple answer, whatever it is (not that there even is one answer), and it’s not really any one person’s (or persons’) fault. “Responsibility” is a more applicable word here than “fault,” and I think that’s really what many of us are wanting – someone in a position of authority to accept responsibility for this insane amount of attrition at a single position. For no one to do so is basically tantamount to saying there isn’t any problem at all, and just plunging forward with eyes closed and ears plugged.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
It should have been “perpetrate” rather than “perpetuate”. That doesn’t even make sense.
Anyway, it would be nice if Ferentz said something publicly about how crazy this is. Instead, they seem to be recruiting an insane number of RBs. I don’t expect him to say anything about it after signing day when they announce who they have. Actions, words, etc. It would still be somewhat satisfactory if he would.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
And really
it’s not even so much an issue of someone in a leadership role taking responsibility as it is simply acknowledging that there even is an attrition problem – and a serious and ongoing one at that, and that carefully thought-out measures are being taken to address said problem. Right now it seems like we’re getting a “nothing to see here, move along, no questions” type of response from KF & the UI as a whole. That’s not acceptable. Like Stoops has said, this has gotten to the point where it needs to be addressed as a “how have we failed these kids” type of issue.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
But who says they're not taking these measures, just because they're not coming out and saying it?
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
And isn't that what they did with bringing on Ejiasi?
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
How's that working out?
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Not as well as they'd hoped.
But it’s not as though they’re not trying; I just think they recognize that having Ferentz come out now and say God-knows-what to the media isn’t going to make the situation any better.
Is coming out and saying to the media that they have attrition problems going to help things? A public statement to that effect isn’t going to keep anyone from leaving, and it sure as hell isn’t going to make this look like a more attractive place to come to (I’m sure Coach X from Scumbag U. would love a press clipping of Ferentz himself acknowledging that we have higher than average attrition problems when he’s recruiting). I’d imagine that pretty much any statement from Ferentz right now is probably just going to piss off most of the fanbase anyway.
The coaching staff is, I’m sure, painfully aware of their roster turnover, and yes, the RB attrition is astounding. But from looking at things on a case-by-case basis, there isn’t one thing you can point to and say that if the staff had done things differently, a significant amount of guys would still be here (outside of advocating cheating and ankle bracelet tracking devices).
We’re all upset. Losing promising players is hard, especially a player like Coker who, from all outside appearances, seemed like a guy fans could point to and say is a scholar, an athlete, and a gentleman. But it didn’t work out, and there are unknowns surrounding it (which arguably point to it being a non-football issue, which to me seems ironic we want Ferentz’s head over the Coker issue based on all the previous attrition). It sucks. But let’s not act like anything Ferentz might say right now is going to make us feel better, or that the coaching staff doesn’t really give a fuck about all the promising players it loses.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
I understand
I just don’t agree with the approach.
For a certain segment of the fanbase, Kirk can DO NO WRONG. So, for them, there is nothing that he needs to say or that is required. For another segment of the fanbase, there is nothing Ferentz can say/do that would appease them, they are going to demand his head. The vast majority, however, I think occupies a fluid middle ground with differing degrees of unease about the situation. What this group wants is much harder to pin down, but I think some sort of acknowledgement that this has become a trend and one they or working to mitigate may be called for. At the very least, something other than the “You [the fans/supports] are not worthy of our response and we will not deign to address it” imperial attitude that too often permeates from the coaching staff and SID office.
In other words, you’re right that there is nothing that could be said that would please everyone. But the answer shouldn’t be, well then we won’t even try to please anyone. But that is the attitude the program and coaches take.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
So are you the vast majority of the Fluid Middle Ground
Or the small group that the program and coaches should try to please? I’ve accepted that I’ll never know what happens behind closed doors. I don’t like feeling like I’m being victimized when rational thought dictates otherwise. Ferentz and barta don’t owe me any explanation.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
I'm in the group
that thinks it behoove Ferentz to at least give some sort of public indication that the attrition rate among the team, particularly RB and D-line, is something that the coaching staff is aware of and that they will endeavor to see if there is a root cause that can be mitigated.
In the immediate case of Coker, I doubt there is much more information that Ferentz would be able to share, even if he were so inclined. And that’s just the way the world works sometimes. What I don’t agree with is that attitude that you, and some others, have adopted that essentially says “No one should ever be allowed to question Ferentz. EVER.” There a times when answers are needed. There are even times when you know that you will never get the answer, but that the question still must be asked. This is probably one those times.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Then your head is going to get really sore.
Because that wall isn’t moving. I never said we shouldn’t question Ferentz, go ahead. I do all the time. But I don’t demand answers from someone who (over 13 years) has made it perfectly clear that he’s in charge, he runs the show, if you don’t like it go somewhere else.
It has been said many times that this site produces better explanations than the University can provide. That’s because there sometimes are no answers. Coker cheated on a test. You cheat on a test and you get kicked out. Ferents didn’t want the 2nd best running back in the Big Ten to leave school, and if you think asking him why every 10 seconds is going to produce an answer then you’re dilusional.
We know what happened, and for those who are accepting that a)he cheated; b)he got caught; and c)anyone who does that is kicked out of school we aren’t obsessing with some conspriacy that Ferentz is attempting to rule Iowa City and ruin the football program.
What answers are you looking for? None will satisfy you, because you already have your own opinion that Ferentz runs talented players out of town because they have ego problems, but the Coker leaves school and your theory is shot. So then you want to know the REAL reasons, and you know damn well the real reasons are there are rules and if you break them you are gone. Even if you are Marcus Coker.
Period.
Doesn’t matter if I think it’s right, it’s the way it is under Ferentz. Bette this than losng scholarships, bowl games, and being on probation.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
Uh . . . No.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
You're assuming he cheated on a test.
That’s never been confirmed, and seems increasingly unlikely. If your entire defense hinges on him getting kicked out of school (also wrong) because he cheated, then you’re up a creek without a paddle.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
Notably absent from this post: Facts.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
Just...Goddamn it.
I read this post thrice looking for facts. Maybe someone could point them out for me.
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
You can read this whole site and not find one fact other than the statistical analysis.
That’s my opinion. And opinions are like assholes: everyone has one, and they all stink.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
If this comment isn't a joke,
then this comment is a complete joke.
That’s just my opinion.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
That's some nice wordplay there
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
I just don’t understand what is to be gained from this, other than making you and others feel better, because I believe that they recognize these things and think about this all the time. I believe that, beyond their own professionalism, Barta and the administration and big money are reminding Ferentz that this doesn’t look good.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
well,forone, fans feeling better usually leads them to spending more money which...
…you know, is what pays his salary and that of his assistants and his recruiting budget etc…. So even if only 10% of fans spend half as much money on the team and would be appeased by a statement, isn’t that, in and of itself, worth it over a multi-year period.
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
Highly speculative that him not making a statement would cause that.
Wins are a much better indicator.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
It's all speculation. I thought the "if" word indicated that...
and they’re not getting wins either.
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
You're right. It doesn't help.
Fans are going to overcome their anger about this within a couple of months.
But talking about your program’s problems publicly, won’t help. It just gives other programs more fuel for negative recruiting.
And finally, the attrition is bad, but it (or the staff, or whatever other boogeymen we want to blame) doesn’t appear to hinder us from getting some pretty talented RB recruits. When that happens (it negatively affects recruiting), then we can be pissed/worried/demanding.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
but then how long will that take to fix?
And I’m not as confident that all fans will recover.
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
You might be right.
But to me, if fans are going to “stop being Hawk fans” when a couple more RBs transfer, then I’m pretty dubious about their fan status, anyway.
And I have no clue how long this will take to fix. I’m not even sure this whole RB attrition issue is fixable.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
It is fixable. Ferentz already fixed it by switching
to no running backs! Keep up with the times Chazz!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Yeah, I haven't read that post (by Ross?) yet.
I’ve been bouncing between this post, the ones about the Fran-slam, and Vint’s FanShot calling for Ferentz’s dismissal/execution/burial at sea.
/Yeah, that last line was a huge exaggeration.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Do yourself a favor and read it!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
Apropos of very little...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqf2iNjgbl4
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
Oh yeah. I forgot you're the arbiter of REAL FAN status.
Just FYI, my take on fandom: it’s entertainment. It’s meant to provide me joy, not to provide me grief. I’m not going to eat candy that tastes like shit, and I’m not going to watch shit-tasting sports teams either.
tyger1147 - January 12, 2012
No,
the person’s own actions are the deciding factor on that.
Why be a fan of something if it is just going to cause you (not you, Tyger) to throw a fit or be pissed off whenever adversity strikes your team?
Many people hate (or at least dislike) some stereotypical fans of big teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Philly Eagles, etc because they always seem to get pissed off, usually when something bad happens to their team.
I’m not saying I’ve never been disappointed in the Hawks, or even angry.
But, why bash a coaching staff or an athletic department or other University employees just because some kids transferred, or got hurt, or got into trouble? And sometimes, this criticism comes from the same corners as the criticism that the same people (coaches, university, community) are too harsh on the same athletes when they fuck up.
To me, REAL FAN status means with-holding at least some of your resentment when adversity strikes. Sorry if you don’t feel the same.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
After I re-read your above comment, Tyger,
I need to add something.
As you said, you won’t blindly follow a team that “tastes like shit.” And that’s fine.
To me, it is a little more difficult to sever emotion from the equation when it is the biggest team in my home-state (U of I), or when it is an institution that some of my relatives and friends went to (U of I, or UNI). I still take a little extra pride in my home when the Hawkeyes or the Panthers are successful.
I’m not sure why I don’t have the same connection to ISU, but I’m sure Jamie Pollard has a big role in that.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
There's a difference between
being a fan of the team/institution and of the person. I think you seriously blur that distinction, Chazz.
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
I'm a fan of Ferentz, as well.
Mostly because he is the coach of my favorite team.
If he screws up big time, I might change my mind (like Pinkel at Mizzou, or Tressel).
And, I’m fine with fair criticism of Ferentz. I don’t like that he turtles up at the end of a half, or that he has lost many games to teams that are “weaker” than the Hawks.
I just have a little trouble pinning the entire RB attrition issue on him. And I certainly don’t bash him for whichever reason du jour I can think of.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
Agreed
On behalf of everyone who has told me to shut up, or who has thought “I wish that hawkinsandmelrose asshole would shut the fuck up”—-
Thank you. Well said. Amen. My thoughts exactly.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 12, 2012
I think they're damned if they do/damned if they don't
I agree 100% with what both you and SJP above said. Unfortunately, I really don’t know what can be said in public that will make much of a difference, either in perception or on more guys leaving, mostly because, as Lou Holtz said “When all is said and done, more is said than done.” In other words, I would rather they try to figure what they can do (if anything) to keep it from happening, because as has been noted, it seems like maybe only 2-3 of these could fall directly on the staff. I apologize if I’m coming off disagreeable, as it’s not my intent. I just don’t really know what could be said at this point that would really do anything.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
No, not disagreeable at all
And, perhaps more importantly, I think you’re largely right. There is almost nothing that can be said that will explain it all, make it all better; there is no panacea. I guess what I’m hopeful of, is some sort of acknowledgement that the staff is aware that they do need to look at things, to investigate whether there is something rotten in Denmark. And I get frustrated that, too often, all we get is a Chief Wiggum-esque “Nothing to see here folks”
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
THIS, exactly.
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
I just fooled a co-worker with the following fake news clipping, which she believed to be real
During his press conference this morning, Kirk Ferentz announced he would no longer recruit any offensive skill players other than quarterback. “We’re going to go exclusively with a two tight end, three fullback set from now on.” When asked if this was in response to the alarming rate of attrition among running backs since 2007 and among wide receivers in the five years before that, Ferentz said, “No, I don’t think so. And I’m not sure our attrition rate is all that alarming, certainly not any more so than at other schools. We just feel that this fits our personality a little better. I’ve said it before, our motto is ’We’re not sexy, we’re Iowa.’ And we feel this new strategy just fits that. And it allows us to really focus our recruiting on tight ends and fullbacks.” Ferentz also announced that Jordan Canzeri has been moved to defensive tackle for spring practices.
The Naked Bootleg - January 11, 2012
Just speculating but what about something like this:
Iowa is desperate for running backs because there aren’t many coming out of the state, so they go further afield than usual. Of the RBs listed here, 2 are from the Iowa area, 3 from Florida, then 1 each from NJ, OH, MD, MI, KS, PA. Iowa also has to stretch their standards further in terms of character, taking players who are not sure things in terms of academics and common sense.
Then these players, who are already somewhat risky in terms of behavior, come to Iowa, do poorly in school, do other dumb things, and get kicked out. Homesickness probably doesn’t help.
The most plausible thing to me isn’t the geography part (Iowa does get lots of players from other parts of the country, not just running backs), but the fact that Iowa is reaching for these guys. They are recruits with good athletic ability but question marks about grades and character… which is why Iowa can get them in the first place. Maybe this is an okay strategy for a team like Iowa — occasionally you knock one out of the park, as with Shonn Greene — but there has been an awful lot of wasted time, too.
The ultimate question I have is: who is the coach who recruits running backs? Unless that has changed, he is the common thread connecting all these players. Maybe he needs to rethink his strategy, or maybe he’s a really bad judge of character.
Of course, the Iowa interpretation is that fans only notice running backs who leave because they are high profile players, unlike, say, offensive linemen. Maybe that’s true and there is no special running back-specific explanation. Attrition is just a fact of life for college football, especially due to academic requirements. Also, running backs are more likely to suffer injuries, due to the constant beating they take in games and practice. That seems fairly plausible to me, too.
But if running back is a more crucial position and the drop off from the #1 to #2 RB is particularly steep, that’s all the more reason to vet that position more carefully. Maybe the coaches’ perspective is similar to the Denver Broncos view of RBs a few years ago: they’re interchangeable, the offensive line determines their success, so it doesn’t really matter who has the ball.
Horace E. Cow - January 11, 2012
They recruit by region
not position. At least that’s my understanding. I’m sure the ultimate position coach plays a role at some point, but the regional guy does the bulk of the work.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
I always wonder why an elite skill position player from an urban area would come to Iowa
I understand our ability to upgrade and sell to OL, DL, TEs, DBs. and to a lesser extent LBs. But why the hell would a kid from the DC area (for example) want to go to the culture shock of Iowa instead of a Big East, SEC, or ACC team?
Just spitballin here, but I guess I’m interested in the items you note. And it’s particularly relevant because the state of Iowa produces so few elite skill position players.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Recruiting pitch to RBs
Come to Iowa, our depth chart means nothing and you could be starting games by the middle of your freshman year.
Enoch - January 11, 2012
IMO, the kid that wants that speech is somebody that wants all of life right now and would fit horribly into KF’s build-em-up philosophy. Maybe you’re onto something.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Not necessarily
They’re football players. They all want to play. They all want to be on the field. If they didn’t want to do that, then we probably wouldn’t want them.
Captain n Diet Coker - January 11, 2012
Maybe - just maybe, mind you..
They like the coaches? They like the way they do business? Heck, maybe they and their parents actually believe Ferentz has a significant amount of integrity and believe that he can help them become men…
coltranemonk - January 11, 2012
Three words: Panchero's Burrito Lift
hkobb7 - January 11, 2012
THIS!
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
On the positive side, I don't recall hearing about much attrition at the long snapper position.
Perhaps we should start listing our RBs as LS on the roster, just to throw off the Irate Hawkeye Rusher Abhorring Deity (IHRAD).
RazorHawk - January 11, 2012
Well, DeWitt's own Casey Kreiter...
… has really solidified the LS position since he had that good week of practice before MN in 2010.
// Who remembers this KF quote during the DJK duress?
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
We definitely need more DeWitt kids on the roster
CCHS Class of ’88
GaryDolphinSafeTuna - January 11, 2012
'93 alumnus.
My brother was ‘91. You may not know us since we’re interlopers from Charlotte who only showed up in town about the time you were beginning your Iowa City matriculation.
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
Apparently that's pronounced Shar-LOT. Such weirdos!
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Really?
I lived in Charlotte for the better part of a decade and I’ve always pronounced it with emphasis on the first syllable.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
Damn it. I hate being wrong. Curse my mishearing ears!
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Catnuts, you heard it correctly...
… but I would phonetically spell it: SHAR-LOT as both syllables are over-emphasized; it’s very jarring vis-a-vis the city in North Carolina.
What years, Mexican’t? My family lived just outside of town from ’79 to ’87 (woot woot: Rural Route 2 but we had a Preston telephone number — so weird).
We stayed in the area though, moved some 10 miles away to the big city of DeWitt where there are stoplights and shit, a true upgrade from that lone blinking red light on a desolate stretch of highway 136.
/ was looking forward to Dan Heiar playing for the Hawks.
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
True fact: There are no stoplights in the entirety of Clayton County (where I grew up)
We used to have a blinking yellow light around a tough corner in Elkader, but they removed it. It’s now used to light the Bingo hall in town after somebody wins the X-out jackpot
(that last sentence is not a true fact)
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Hey, I grew up in Clayton County as well.
We got our first fast food restaurant my senior year.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Don't big-city me. We still don't have one in Guttenberg
Well, we have a Subway but I’m not sure that counts.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
But are there any printing presses?
/ Gutenberg’ed
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
Is it a stand alone?
If it’s attached to a gas station, it DOESN’T COUNT!!!!!
Lukateake - January 11, 2012
Then, never mind, we still don't have any fast food.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Strawberry Point?
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Their Subway is in a gas station as well.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Your riddles are intriguing.
Monona?
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
I didn't know we were playing a guessing game. Correct.
The Final Gun - January 12, 2012
Elkader?
I’ve spent way too much time on Google Earth and Wikipedia.
// quasi-related, Andrew Sullivan runs a fantastic View From Your Window contest every Saturday over at his blog The Daily Dish.
Lukateake - January 12, 2012
'89-'96, I think.
I spent my childhood in Charlotte and my family moved to Iowa just as I was entering the 6th grade.
I know very little about the area of Charlotte that I lived in. The only things I’m certain of are the schools that I attended and the HS I would have attended. I believe that we moved the year before the Panthers completed construction of their stadium.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
See, you're discussing a different Charlotte.
We’re talking about the pronunciation of Charlotte, Iowa. You’re talking about the one in Carolina.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
And that would be SHAR-lut anyway.
/pedantic’d
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
CRUD. It would be SHAR-lit.
the lesson, as always: I’m an idiot.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
OOOH, that's what I get for only reading your comment and not the one to which you were replying.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
I love how your quick misreading led to strange and interesting places
#thatssoBHGP
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
When threads get this outrageous I often find myself looking at avatars and skimming.
Otherwise I end up getting frustrated and find myself in an argument. As a result I sometimes miss important portions of conversations.
The Mexican't - January 11, 2012
So you stop to read when you see my avatar?
I feel warm and fuzzy inside.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
What is your avatar, precisely?
A stack of books with somebody looking at them?
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
Canter's Deli
I live basically across the street from it. It’s a famous landmark in West L.A.
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Foodgasm
Sorry. I’ll go clean up.
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Ah, thanks.
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
I import bacon from Charlotte Locker
to my St Louis abode. That shit is the bomb. Was brother was a ’90 grad.
GaryDolphinSafeTuna - January 11, 2012 via mobile
I like the fact that you have your bacon "imported."
Although, I think my parents bring some back from NW Iowa often, so perhaps it isn’t as rare and funny as I think.
And, good bacon is a very good thing.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
what kills me about coker, absolutly kills me
is that it sounds like he is being punished for something he didnt commit, because he happened to be in the same building
is that where we are now? punishing kids who are near crimes even if there is no proof they did them?
for the rest of these kids it varries, but for McCall and Coker, i get the feeling it will fall squarely on the coaching staff being idiots
justsomehawkeyefan - January 11, 2012
Even though by the looks of it, Coker loved Iowa football and the coaching staff.
Even saying he was a Hawk for Life.
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
I'm gonna come clean with the info I got since the "cat" is pretty much out of the bag.
If you want the real truth, ask the guy that’s in your screen name, he is connected to this, that’s probably the reason Coker is gone.
I was hesitant to blab about what I’ve heard because I still don’t know if its true or not, just speculations from a friend of a friend of a friend….but I think with the ridiculous state of the Iowa RB situation the fans deserve some answers. Believe me I struggled with the decision to post what I’ve heard. I know we’re dealing with young men’s lives and in this day and age it seems that the public feels entitled to know everything about everyone, but again because it affects all Hawkeye fans and the future of the program.
This is all I will say, hopefully the REAL true will eventually come out.
IAinCA - January 11, 2012
I don't get it
you say you’re going to tell us, then you don’t tell us. You just tell us to ask Adrian Clayborn, which is a bit impractical since I misplaced his phone number.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
HOW WOULD YOU MISPLACE ADRIAN CLAYBORN'S PHONE NUMBER??!!
Oh, you were joking. Nevermind.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
No I really did, it was embarrassing
we were supposed to hook up and go meet some girls downtown.
but I’ll try this method
YO ADRIAN!
WASSUP WITH COKER?
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
So what's the scoop?
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Flakki dont lose that number.
silkhawk - January 11, 2012
Is this really the time for Phil Collins?
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
It's never a time for Phil Collins.
Steely Dan, on the other hand…
Bucketochicken - January 11, 2012
This man disagrees with you
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Pro-Phil or Anti-Dan?
Would that make you a ProPhilactic?
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
HoyaGoon has two ears and a heart.
I’m gonna make him a mixtape.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
Against The Odds
is an awesome song.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
Can't I be a fan of both Phil and Steely Dan?
Except, “In the Air Tonight” is way-too-fucking-overplayed-and-overused at this point.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
“In the Air Tonight” is just more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way
HoyaGoon - January 12, 2012
wait what?
You started the post with “i’m gonna come clean with the info I got” and then effectively said nothing.
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Huh?
If you’re going to “come clean with the info”, a thinly-veiled sentence telling someone to ask a guy that no one here has probably even met is about the furthest thing from revealing.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
I got into this with him yesterday and he implied, but did not state, that I could go fuck myself.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
Did you oblige?
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
And yea, I saw the exchange
I honestly didn’t have a problem with his initial comment about knowing something but not saying. While it may seem like an attention-whoring thing to do, the easier still thing would be to simply ignore it. I understand not necessarily wanting to pass along unverified info, but this post today is just…ugh. Either tell what you know, or don’t. But please get out of the middle ground (not you txhawkeye).
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Yep.
Writing, I know things, but I’m going to take the high ground and let someone else say it, then, if it comes out, I can say I knew it all along …. I’m pretty sure there are very few people who read and post hear who are, in reality, 14 year old girls.
//done with my own unproductive hissy fit
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
SHIT "here’, not “hear”.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
"I'm gonna come clean on what I know..."
that’s probably what got Coker in trouble in the first place. It’s never clean. It gets all over the place.
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
Nah, you should probably keep a lid on it.
I don’t think pussyfooting around about “speculations from a friend of a friend of a friend” is endearing you to anyone here. You were right the first time; no need to speculate because it does involve these people’s reputation.
SomeJerkPoster - January 11, 2012
Keep your lips (and your massive urge to let complete strangers here know) under control
Be a man and stay quiet. Unless you were directly involved, you don’t know shit.
Twin Cities Hawk - January 11, 2012
but what if he's a she? should she still be a man?
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
That's what Coker says
We don’t know what happened. Just remember that humans have an amazing ability to see the world though a self serving filter.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
that may be true, and i may be full of it
but just based on what we know of Coker, it doesnt seem very likely to me
justsomehawkeyefan - January 11, 2012
This kind of bugs me
and mind you, I do it too.
We don’t know these guys. At all. When they speak, it’s usually about the team or the game and even that is being filtered. We know a little of their UI approved bio, maybe we get something a bit more from facebook. That tells us nothing about their inner lives and very little about what they do publicly.
I know of too many examples in my own life or people I know fairly well where, when they discovered the dark secret of somebody close to them, it was 100% surprising.
I’m not trying to paint Coker as a bad guy. As I said, I don’t know him. But neither do any of you. Well, maybe somebody does but probably not.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
2 time Gentleman of the year in high school!
clay-born to party - January 11, 2012
I'm not comfortable with this line of thinking.
He hasn’t been charged with anything and you’re insinuating he has a “dark secret.” So what, he’s a closet rapist?
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
I don't think he said that
he just said that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions on the character of players whether it is positive or negative because we don’t really know them
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 11, 2012
Thank you
I’m glad somebody around here passed their reading comprehension class.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
That is not what I'm saying
I’m saying that we don’t know the athletes and to presume we know what goes on in their private lives is just dumb. We like to think they are great guys but I’ve met a few Hawkeye athletes and on one occasion they were a complete fucking jackass.
Also, there was this important poing you may have missed.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
If it wasn't the point...
Then it was an unnecessary comment to even add.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
This is the internet
if you don’t over specify to the nth detail, people tend to assume you mean things that you do not mean.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
That's what Coker says
…along with the Johnson County Attorney.
mikjones24 - January 11, 2012
I was making a general statement
It wasn’t meant to reference the brief investigation specifically.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
Uh,
Leon Spies is not the Johnson County Attorney.
Now, it looks as though a charge was filed against Coker, it was investigated and the police/prosecutor determined that there wasn’t enough to go forward with the case. That could mean any number of things. Given what we know about Coker’s personal life (admittedly not much), though, I am going to assume the best of the young man and assume the charges had no merit.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Uh, it was a city investigation, and here's what the city attorney said about it:
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Never mind, I thought Spies worked for the prosecutors, I'm wrong. Stupid me.
The Final Gun - January 11, 2012
Spies=Defense Attorney.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
My defense attorney is a spy? For whom????
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
The Press Citizen wrongly implied that Spies was speaking for the city
Spies is Coker’s attorney. That’s the same Spies who defended Everson in RapeGate ’08 (or was it ’07).
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
Similar, or maybe not.
My wife works in the accounting department at a small oil and gas company and they have one of the most stunning turnover rates I’ve ever seen. They rely a lot on temp-to-hire people, which is certainly part of the problem, but it’s to the point where they lose an employee every month.
The company can’t put their finger on what’s happening, though, because the people have left for a plethora of reasons. One person was calling in sick twice every week. One person sent $1.5 million in payments to the wrong companies. One person moved to Dallas to be with her boyfriend. One person told their boss to go fuck himself. One person got a full-time position somewhere else. One person got caught giving a handy to a sales rep in a coat closet at the Christmas party.
Now, can you really look at that company and think that they’ve just had a completely amazing run of unrelated bad luck? There must be something wrong either with the kind of people being hired or the kind of environment they work in or with the management style. Maybe it’s all of those things, maybe it’s none of them, but it can’t be a coincidence.
And I realize it’s hard to look at each employee who left and put any blame on the company. I mean, how can you say that’s it’s the supervisor’s fault that one of his employees told him to go fuck himself and how can you say it’s the manager’s fault that one of the employees found a better job somewhere else? Just like I wouldn’t say that it’s Kirk Ferentz’s fault that Marcus Coker got accused of cheating or was implicated in an assault or whatever happened. But if you take a step back and look at all of the incidences, it feels like something is broken. I don’t know what it is, but it certainly deserves attention.
Hayden Fry's Moustache Ride - January 11, 2012
This
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Excellent points HFMR.
I work at a company that has a very high turnover rate of our field personnel. We have a standing order for ads at the radio station and newspaper to try to get new people.
BStylin Hawkye - January 11, 2012
I hope Coker wasn't giving handy's in the coat closet.
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 11, 2012
NTTAWWT
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
With every question in life, the answer is: “It depends”.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
I can think of a lot of questions where that is an incorrect answer
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
Like
“Mr. Coker, did you assault this woman?”
“Well, judge, it depends.”
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
wonderful
tyger1147 - January 11, 2012
See?
txhawkeye - January 12, 2012
I wonder what the pay/work is like at that company
It could be that the wage is so low/work is so unpleasant that they’re filtering out all the sane people. Something similar could be happening at Iowa. There’s no “pay” of course (as far as we know), but whatever it is that entices running backs to play at a school (reputation/national championships/naked hot tub parties), Iowa doesn’t have a ton of it, and is forced to reach for high-risk cases.
Horace E. Cow - January 11, 2012
I worked at a collection agency for about 8 months
they lost an average of one person a day. They tried to keep about 200 people collecting at any given time. That was just the nature of that business but still.
Flakbait - January 11, 2012
"It feels like something is broken"
That about sums it up.
Blackheartnopants - January 11, 2012 via Android app
Good lord, what a mess
This is way worse than my team’s recent running back misfortunes (Fitz cant crank out the 1000 yard backs like Walker could, inability to find a bell cow running back). I hope you guys can get this problem fixed
LincolnParkWildcat - January 11, 2012
We have our top men on this.
Top. Men.
Give Eddie a Beer - January 11, 2012
The answer is somewhere in here
we just have to find it
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
Give me the whip!
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 11, 2012
The key to some of the player loses is "getting with the program"
If you put McCall, Fiedorowicz, DJK, Bob Sanders, “I want to poach the MAC allstars”, NFL-ready self-sufficient players, facebook, twitter, and Iowa all together- you have your answer.
whohawk - January 11, 2012
On the plus side
we’re not worrying about the search for a new defensive coordinator any more.
HoyaGoon - January 11, 2012
I'm still waiting for the "Short List" writeup for Mike Sherman that Vint (or Ross, sorry, I can't remember) mentioned the other day
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
Or the NDSU guy.
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 11, 2012
Attrition, berfittion!
That’s so 2007 (and 2008, and 2009, and 2010, and 2011). What the real story to me is: Why hasn’t anyone photoshopped that delightfully, beautiful Wegher mug shot into something I can give out rec’s to like candy at a playground.
Twin Cities Hawk - January 11, 2012
That is a fine “I don’t give a shit” police photo.
txhawkeye - January 11, 2012
With the hair standing on end
It almost seems like it could belong to an Oompah Loompah. But I could be wrong.
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
You'd think with all the money they spend on police departments
That they’d have a better mugshot photo camera. There’s so much… entitlement in that picture.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Goodness I hate getting in on these threads so late.
But work claimed all my time today up until just this moment. Anyway……
I think a lot of our problems are due to the inherent nature of the RB position:
1. It is a high injury position, whether that is ACL’s or concussions.
2. It is a physically demanding position, even when you don’t get an injury you get hurt. No player gets tackled as much in a game as the RB. That wears on one emotionally, with time.
3. It is a historically ‘skill-position’-type position, meaning that the best recruits are not likely to be local. Most of Iowa’s most successful RB’s historically were not from anywhere near Iowa. When you have to recruit that far away, you are going to attract a certain kind of player, and there are risks to that. Fred Russell was a UM non-qualifier. Shonn Greene was a Milford Academy guy. These types of players are your most at-risk to flunk out. Russell stayed eligible, Shonn flunked out but came back. They were the lucky ones, though.
5. Even when you get a local kid—like Wegher—shit happens. Wegher was never a great student, or so I’ve heard. Who knows if he could’ve even stayed at Iowa even if he’d wanted to? The type of kid who wants to play RB, the type of physical commitment you have to make to play it, might naturally appeal to a certain personality type—and that very personality type might place that player at-risk to leave. Coker seemed to be the exception, which is why it’s doubly disappointing that he’s leaving. But even with Marcus, the grind of 25-30 rough carries a day took its toll. He might be burned-out as much as in trouble. There’s only so much a man can take, and RB takes a mighty toll. Combine that with someone WILLING to take that toll, and you have a recipe for attrition.
6. Only one RB at a time can carry the ball. If you ain’t that guy, you might be unhappy. A Rob/Wegher even-steven backs are unusual for Iowa. And if you’re 3rd string (hell, this year even 2nd string), you won’t see the field. You start to get pissy. When you’re pissy, you might start to get in trouble. Or disappointed. And leave.
As for the coaches, there’s a fine line between individualizing your approach to your players, and playing favorites. There must be SOME consistency to how you handle your players as a whole. I think the individual stuff is seen at the asst coach level, where individual attention can be given. The coach is the CEO but the asst coaches are your Middle Managers. And it’s the Middle Managers who really know you, and know what you do and don’t need. I think more attention might need to be paid to the RB coach’s methods and philosophies rather than Ferentz’s, since the RB coach, I’m guessing, knew Marcus better than anyone on that team. Even so, I don’t think it’s the FB coaches who are at fault with Marcus. I think his circumstances might be unique.
Anyway, there’s been an RB problem, but what I’m getting at is that, even under the best of circumstances, even when you seem to have a ’can’t miss’ guy like Marcus Coker, you can still somehow miss. All you can do is soldier on. Frankly, I’m not sure how preventable the RB situation is, even for the future. The only other option is to only sign local kids who aren’t likely to fail or get homesick and so on—but then they’re not going to be All Americans. And they can still get injured. And so on.
AIRBHG doesn’t have to work very hard to accomplish his evil aims, is what I’m getting at.
The Director - January 11, 2012
Herschel Walker disagrees with you
He was once asked if it was hard to carry “that ball so many times a game.” His reply was something like “that ball? That ball ain’t heavy.”
Seriously, I agree with you, but I just couldn’t help myself…
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Herschel Walker is one of the freakiest guys to ever wear a football hat
and I mean wierdo, freaky, freakazoid. But I love him. He came within a whisker of quitting football after his sophomore year to join the Marines. He eats one meal a day, doesn’t sleep more than 4 hours at time, doesn’t even sleep in a bed. In college he would often go days only eating a few Snickers bars. He does thousands of pushups and sit-ups every morning and every evening and has done so since he was 8 years old, to include throughout his football career (yes, in season too). He won the SEC title in the 100m dash without any real training. He is easily the greatest running back in the history of college football when you consider he played three years averaging about 1,750 yards per year, did not start right away in his freshman year and is only 1150 yards behind Ron Dayne for most yards career. Georgia had no passing game when he played, teams completely loaded the box against him. He was completely misused by professional football teams and yet he holds the professional football record for single-season rushing yards with 2,411 yards in 1985 in the USFL. In the NFL he played for Dallas and they were in that time one of the two worst teams in football and yet he rushed for 1,500 yards in one of his two seasons there. Then, he was traded to the Vikings and he got bored with football and started to focus on the Winter Olympics, yes, the Winter Olympics (bobsled). He is currently training to climb Everest without oxygen or sherpa assistance. Okay, I’m kidding, but he could do it if you dared him.
StoopsMyAss - January 11, 2012
He’s actually training for and competing in MMA, which you wouldn’t have had to bluff about!
Brock8144 - January 11, 2012
I'm a huge Hershel fan too
And the guy is a total freak – completely three standard deviations beyond the mean on the high end of the bell curve. I just love throwing out that quote whenever I can.
I remember watching him in college and the pros. The runs are just a thing of beauty, and I’ve seen footage of him doing MMA … the guy is just scary on so many levels.
The Bird Cult - January 11, 2012
Yeah.
I was a toddler when he was in college, but I enjoy seeing some of those old Georgia games on ESPN Classic. Walker was a beast, and probably still is.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
Agreed
Having been born in 83, I don’t remember watching him growing up (other than his last few years in the pros), and thought that Adrian Peterson was the best freshman back I had ever seen (and maybe the best college back, period). Then I saw some video of Hershel and quickly changed my tune.
Brock8144 - January 12, 2012
I saw him run the 100 meters at the Drake Relays. “Freak” doesn’t do him justice. At the time he was 60-80 lbs heavier and 5-7" taller than the largest of his track compatriots. It was wild.
txhawkeye - January 12, 2012
Lots of great points in here.
A minor add: A weird thing that happened after the ‘09 season is the winning wasn’t a cure all for the team. I get that there are player issues in what everything agrees is a disappointing season. Losing has that affect. But after winning 11 games, we were dropping people in the off-season. That’s rare, even with a player that has “issues” or whatever. As a general rule, nobody gets off the train when it’s going in the right direction.
One_ill_KevinJ - January 11, 2012
ooh, yes please!
(I chose this pic because of the hair. When did he have hair???)
therealCatnuts - January 11, 2012
He never had hair.
Nor did his brother. Famous for it in high school.
nhradar - January 11, 2012
hair doesn't grow on steel
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
he's heating up
SaturdayMorningKegStanzis - January 12, 2012
I think you are literally inside my brain for this point:
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
My final comment
It is my hope and belief that Ferentz takes a look at his staff and evaluates their performance the same way he does his players. Lester Erb is really not doing much in terms of keeping these guys “in line”, however you may read that.
This offseason will see, hopefully, some changes that we can all agree on. Norm will be replaced likely by Phil Parker, and LeVar Woods will likely take over at DL. But our running back coach has been left out of all discussions. We blame Ken O’Keefe (rightfully so at times) for the offense, but when was the last time he had a senior running back that was a 2-3 year starter? Damien Simms? Is that Ken’s fault? Or is that the position coach’s fault.
I’m not concerned with who will be the DC, or the DL. The options there are many and all very good, and we have some talented players who have gained painfully unsuccessful experience. But to think that Erb is excused from the conversation and criticism is unfair to the players who have left under his watch as well as the coaches we routinely take shits on. Hopefully, while I hate change in my old age, there are changes that raise the expectations of Ferentz and the players. Hopefully we see some Iowa in the Iowa Hawkeyes. No doubt in my mind the Ferentz loves Iowa City and the University. I just wonder if he’s able to cut ties with some of his old staff, maybe Norm leaving will act as a catalyst.
In closing: Erb has to go. Phil to DC. Woods to DL coach. Ken ain’t going anywhere, like it or not.
In Kirk We Trust.
hawkinsandmelrose - January 11, 2012
So, is this the right time to ask
Why Kahlil Hill was suspended for a season? I’ve always been curious about that one, and it’s been, what, 10 years now?
nhradar - January 11, 2012
I thought it was weed?
Doesn’t everyone know that?
Personally, I’d be okay with suspending him for a few games just for running that one kickoff return back into the end zone and getting tackled.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Wasn't just that.
He was multiple, to borrow an overused phrase. I think a bunch of the stuff he did led to the leash getting shortened way up, and Benny Sapp taking it in the neck right afterwards. It’s been 10 years though.
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
Thanks
I always thought it was impressive that KF could suspend an All-American for a year without details coming out in the press. I wasn’t living in IC at the time, and didn’t want to be That Guy and ask friends who knew for sure.
Thought of it in this thread because A) he was a skill player that came from an Iowa high school (though he wasn’t exactly local) and B) that’s been my KF stoneface yardstick since it happened.
nhradar - January 11, 2012
Just be happy that Hakim Hill was never a Hawk.
That guy made Hannible Lector seem like a tolerable team member.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
KF: "I think we've had enough of the Hill brothers."
And yet! Still playing football! I think he won a UFL championship last year.
nhradar - January 11, 2012
Hakim was?
Wow.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
Reading that...
Sounds a lot more declaratory than I meant. I may have combined Hakim with Khalil as well. I would like to humbly retract my previous post. Don’t mind me.
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
"On Iowa" podcast said it was performance-enhancing drugs
in a pretty concrete statement. That’s the one I’ll believe.
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
When was that podcast?
nhradar - January 12, 2012
long time ago. Might have even been their first episode, actually
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
Well, while I'm in an antagonistic mood,
Mr. Vint/Hawkeye State, I have to say that I think it is strait bullshit to call Shonn Greene a thrice-defector.
/I’m sorry.
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
He was thrice loyal!
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
That's kind of the way I see it..
He did come back to the Hawks twice, and very few of us could legitimately criticize him for jumping to the League at age 23 (he was 23 at that point, right?)
WaterlooChazz - January 11, 2012
IIRC, yes.
TMFS jumped ship for the same reason, and I don’t blame him either.
Norm Parker's Amputated Toes - January 11, 2012
I don't blame any of them
for jumping to the NFL as soon as they can. Football careers are terribly short and anybody can blow out a knee or suffer 20 other dream ending injuries on any play.
Flakbait - January 12, 2012
Jesus H.
I think we are missing the point. This could be far worse than losing Coker, or attrition.
Per Rivals.com, all people are looking at is the headline “Suspended Running Back Allowed to Play 5 Games While Under Investigation.”
We need to manage this quickly before we get grouped in with Ohio State and Miami.
UI Athletics Dept. just needs to come clean and spill the whole truth about the suspension. Because right now that truth is probably better than what most people around the nation are thinking about us.
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
Except he wasn't playing while under investigation.
The Mexican't - January 12, 2012
True, but you know how the national media handles these things
If we don’t control the spin, the Rivals headline next week will be “Rapist Destroys Gophers, Girls.”
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
The truth matters a lot more than what Rivals thinks
In fact, not many people care at all about what Rivals thinks
therealCatnuts - January 12, 2012
Here's the Sports Illustrated story
Iowa’s Coker played while facing sexual assault probe
Headlines matter. Even if somebody reads the entire story, the headline will taint their interpetation of it. For those that don’t read the story, or just kinda skim it, it seems that Coker was playing while KF knew he was being investigated for rape.
Flakbait - January 12, 2012
Especially in an RSS feed world
YouCanPutYourEddsInIt - January 12, 2012
I don't listen to people who aren't rated by Rivals
TangerinePony - January 16, 2012
"UI Athletics Dept. just needs to come clean and spill the whole truth..."
HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha[breathes]ahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Whew.
That’s rich.
Bucketochicken - January 12, 2012
I fear you are correct
But sometimes you need to say something.
“Does KF support Bin Laden?”
“No Comment.”
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
They aren't legally able to do that, almost certainly
If they’ve conducted an internal investigation regarding two students, there are a ton of privacy issues (as we’ve discussed earlier).
nhradar - January 12, 2012
BTW
That was not the actual headline, but it was the main point of the story on rivals.
TangerinePony - January 12, 2012
We've flirted with AIRBHG prior to 2004
This goes well beyond the 2004 disaster. It goes beyond the guys that were the last to get through four years. Suterman lays out the gory details from 2001-present on HR if you want the full run-down.
2001 – Iowa’s back in a bowl game after a three-year hiatus. Ladell Betts sat through three insufferable seasons running behind a bad offensive line and playing on poor teams. He has a productive career despite the bad lines and a good senior season. He looks to go out with a bang, but gets hurt just prior to Iowa’s Alamo Bowl win over Texas Tech – his last game in an Iowa uniform in what was the only bowl game of his career.
2002 – Betts’ replacement in the 19-16 Alamo Bowl win is Aaron Greving. Greving topped 100 yards in the bowl win and looked primed to carry the load for Iowa in 2002 behind the best line in the nation. He gets hurt early in preseason camp. He losses the starting spot to Fred Russell, then the back-up spot to Jermelle Lewis. He transfers mid-season in the lead-up to Iowa’s 34-9 win at Michigan.
2003 – Young breaks his leg in fall camp, Jermelle Lewis tears his ACL in spring camp. Lewis returns at the end of the season and plays most of the November slate of games, plus the bowl game (an absurdly quick recovery, by the way; that dude was an absolute freak).
And we’ve had several guys not mentioned here that never made it to campus or switched their commitment prior to signing day – Justice Hairston never qualified for Iowa so he went the Prep School route before landing at Rutgers, Jason Ford switched from Iowa to Illinois, and Melvin Gordon famously said he was solid with Iowa – then switched his commitment to Wisconsin a few weeks later.
Nickhawk08 - January 12, 2012
Great point.
I’d bet we might find more injured or transferred RBs in Hayden’s second decade, too. But it is more difficult to find that info, as it is pre-internet.
WaterlooChazz - January 12, 2012
I thought Greving just decided he didn't want to play football anymore.
SomeJerkPoster - January 12, 2012
A joke from that season. Ahem:
Q: What do Aaron Greving and Iowa State have in common?
A: They both quit playing football in October!
Blackheartnopants - January 12, 2012 via Android app
I think he transferred to Iowa State,
but only played a few games there, and then maybe quit?
Actually, I can’t find any stats for him from ISU. He was from Ames in high school.
WaterlooChazz - January 14, 2012
Seriously. fuck dammit
My RSS feeder just told me that Cover is gone and I came on to swear and rant. What.the hell is the problem. The guy wanted to be an astrophysist. I mean Cmon. This is the type of guy we want. Not a 5 star prima Donna
Wow. Just stunned.
GotDebt - January 13, 2012 via mobile
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